[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Abriael]

At least I hope that if they put as Advance job, rank them from 1, and with different abilities.

I personally doubt that they'll implement the old FF classes ad advanced jobs. While this system could work and some features of it are quite nice, I seriously doubt that SE can spare the development resources to do something that deep in less than biblical times.

They're more probably going to just convert the present classes in FFXI equivalents and keep the armoury system pretty much as it is (it's the very basic foundation of the game, changing it radically would require much more than changing the classes as some think. It would require going back to the most basic level of the drawing board and it would probably take no less than a year or two).

Gladiator -> Paladin
Pugilist -> Monk
Marauder -> Warrior (or Dark Knight)
Lancer -> Dragoon
Conjurer -> Black Mage
Thaumaturge -> White Mage
Archer -> Ranger

The only problem with that is located in the conjurer and thaumaturge split. Some abilities will have to be switched around in order to have a Black Mage that's a primary nuker and a White Mage that's a primary healer. Obviously some people would find issue in such an arbitrary choice, but the problem could be solved by offering some kind of conversion choice. (IE: people should be allowed to chose what class convert to what, giving them the freedom to chose between, for instance, converting their rank 50 THM to WHM and their rank 30 CON to BLM or the other way around).

The other classic Final Fantasy classes (Samurai, Ninja, Red Mage and so forth) will be probably expansion material. I very much doubt that Se will implement all the classic classes from the get go.

[Alpha_Zeon]

How do you get Samurai from Lancer, thats just odd.

I love this suggestion.
Lancer: Tp builder spec with lance, Defence spec with short lance and shield.

This sounds better, or, Dragoon (obviously) and I dunno Lancer Knight (w/shield)?

[kukurumei]

Sounds like a hassle to graft a system onto a broken system to make a broken system with more options.

There's probably hundreds of ways to make it more stable and faster to implement then sticking in the existing armory/skill system.

First thing I would do, is to audit every skills and cut the numbers in half, maybe more. Too many repeating and useless skills anyway.

Then we can organize them into a tree system, if people like that. throw in the old FF11 job change moogle if people like that instead of the weapon change. Then you can have skill customization based on requirements if people like that as well.

Too much mixing and matching for optimal builds. That was the problem that lead to the cure/shocks/best skill/ melee job dog piling in the first place.

[Nharil]

Too much mixing and matching for optimal builds. That was the problem that lead to the cure/shocks/best skill/ melee job dog piling in the first place.

You're going to get dog piling no matter how the game is sliced -- It's an MMO and everyone wants to be the most effective. BG will theory-craft the crap out of the game and come up with something that makes you 0.5% more effective in a fight, and everyone will take it as law for their jobs. It's just how many players react in an MMO environment and trying to push against that is just going to continue the running-in-place that has plagued the current system since launch.

[YUGON]

I like the idea, just that I would let anyone be able to play any job, but having to level it.

For example:
As said before, when you hit lv. 30 with Gladiator, you can choose Paladin or Dark Knight.
I choose Paladin and I level up Pld till lv. 50 (or whatever the cap will be by then). I would have my unique abilities for it.
If I want to level up Drk, then I will have to go to the guild, and do the quest to unlock Drk.
Then I may be able to go to the guild (or mog house, or whatever system it may be implemented) and "Change job" (something like FFXI) to Drk. The I would be able to level up Drk too.

I like the idea, but I don't like the idea to "If I level up Pld, then I just quit my abilities, and put Drk abilities, and I'll have a full leveled Drk too"

A problem I see, is that SE started this game for casual players but... usually people that plays MMORPG, are not "that casual" This game is SO MUCH casual, I think... : /

[Kurokikaze]

You're going to get dog piling no matter how the game is sliced -- It's an MMO and everyone wants to be the most effective. BG will theory-craft the crap out of the game and come up with something that makes you 0.5% more effective in a fight, and everyone will take it as law for their jobs. It's just how many players react in an MMO environment and trying to push against that is just going to continue the running-in-place that has plagued the current system since launch.

^ this. You don't design a system because you're in fear that in the end people will resort to a cookie cutter/optimal. It's going to happen no matter what you do. There is absolutely no way around that. Also, this isn't something that is limited to just MMOs but its where it happens the most.

@ Yugon yeah I put that in the 3rd post. Either way could work, one just requires more grinding but its same thing in the end.

[Aion]

I'll quote my idea from another thread

How bout this..

lets say we are CON now...and when we equip blackmagecloth+wizardhat and equip Burn(or other R14 offensive spell) automaticaly new SP bar unlocked to class BLM. automatic trait that is [offensive spell+20%MagicPotency buff-10%Duration] while we on "BLM" title, the SP we get also goes to CON...so classing BLM also classing the base job CON

and lets say we are GLA...when we equip platearmor+heavyshield and we equip Cure we automatically titled as PLD..which it has automatic trait that is [Def+20% Healing Potent+10% Evade-10%]...classing PLD also ranking up the base job GLA...

just like that with bit tweaking...maybe we can add quest unlock or something...

================================================

better idea: maybe trait that I mention can be used as "unlocker" opposed to equipping cure or spells, and to get it we must do certain quest.....

so basically you want to feel "Unique" by equipping gears that "themed" by that advance/specialization class... and to determines you can rank it, you must equip its trait(that we get from quest after fulfill certain Rank of job/jobs)

[Rhianu]

Shuichi of BG has made a nice flowchart that describes the how one would progress in the game:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7...branchflow.png

Note that you are free to go back and choose another class whenever you want.

While I like the idea behind the chart, I don't agree with the level requirements it imposes. I don't think people should have to wait clear until level 40 before they can start defining their role in their job. Class specialization needs to start much, much earlier than that. Like around level 10.

[Kurokikaze]

Both ideas are weirdly similar in approaching the same end results. Your suggestion would involve releasing a lot of FF themed gear to give people options and drives away from the Armory System's weapon = class concept. Unfortunately I also feel that your approach is way too linear for an MMO. Maybe that could be the base buff for changing but they're gonna need more than that to make classes shine when upgraded.

Your approach is to attempt to fix the problem by adding new things and thinking they will go away. My approach is that the entire system needs to be re-imagined. The post isn't just about the classes although that was just the major point. Skills, traits, abilities (especially current ones), encounters, etc all need to be reevaluated. This is just a foundation or basis from which to start the heavy task of balancing the game.

I wasn't kidding when I clicked "Yes" to "Welcoming changes that would go against the rules of Eorzea."

[Kurokikaze]

While I like the idea behind the chart, I don't agree with the level requirements it imposes. I don't think people should have to wait clear until level 40 before they can start defining their role in their job. Class specialization needs to start much, much earlier than that. Like around level 10.

The exact starting point is still under debate. That was made so people can get a visual of what is being suggested based on the example given in the OP. I personally would have classes start speccing at 20. Getting to that level is fairly easy, at least now it is.