[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Kurokikaze]

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] treated the weapons as weapon skills rather than classes 99% of your complaints would be solved. Your refusal to adopt any system other than class = how you play is the root of your -perceived problem.

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] realized that I have acknowledged that and responded with this question:

I have not heard a single concrete answer on what happens to any of us that have leveled one of the current classes to 50. Are you trying to tell me that all that progress/grinding was for a few abilities and that I should go level one of the new classes to perform

You will see what I mean. Go ahead. I'm waiting for that answer given your brief explanation.

[Chinook]

I have not heard a single concrete answer on what happens to any of us that have leveled one of the current classes to 50. Are you trying to tell me that all that progress/grinding was for a few abilities and that I should go level one of the new classes to perform

I know this question isn't directed at me, but why couldn't you make these new classes start at rank 50 instead of going back to rank 1 ? (that's what I tried to demonstrate in my post earlier, but I do not tend to be clear when I type in english)

Just have one of the "FFT style" class rank prerequisites at 50 from the actual class selection for these new "advanced" classes, and current progress wouldn't be a problem anymore.

[Kurokikaze]

Because I honestly don't see them raising the level cap for a bit. Maybe I'm wrong... But it just doesn't seem like a logical thing to do at this point in the game. Should fix the game up until this point and keep max at 50 before they introduce stuff associated with a new cap. I see a level cap increase around the time they release for PS3.

They're also trying to make some endgame raids - raising level cap means they gotta go back and re-balance for the new max.

[javid]

I agreed that the tree and guild mark (merit system) are similar. And yes we're using different names but similar concepts.
I did say that the abilities and traits that are currently unlocked by achieving said rank in respective classes be "gutted" (remove the associations)-GLA would no longer be able to use provoke by just being a GLA. I also said since ppl have already achieved so much they will DEMAND compensation. And they should get it! I suggested for every ability lost, a trait, weapon ability and/or guild mark be given in replacement. Another idea would be to have players unlock/buy/quest for each ability BUT for those current players whom already achieve the abilities would not be required to unlock/buy/quest once they reach the recommend rank. Example your 48 GLA has abilities like provoke, Obsess, ramparts. These are abilities that are not weapon specific. So you would no longer be able to equip these abilities by simply wielding a sword. Rather this abilities would in be properly place under the PLA [and/or WAR] job (title). Still you would not have to re-unlock/quest/buy these skills once your pld reach the respective recommend rank. So at rank 10 pld you get Provoke (5 for war) at rank 18 pld you get Obsess... etc. Nevertheless most all Sword weaponskills you would keep-red lotus, circle slash, spinstroke, riot blade (you dont have ), blah , blah, blah.

Another note there are plenty of class (weapon specialist) abilities/traits that can be added that ppl would more than willingly trade in for the job (title) abilities that are currently class unlocked. For example We'll use GLA. There is about 14 abilities and traits combined that are not necessarily sword related-provoke,obsess, phalanx, self-preservation,...etc. I argue that those 14 be replaced with abilities and traits like these: "divulge"-sword ability that attacks like maim, "Bolt"- sword ability that assure your next attack will hit, sword haste tiers, sword parry tiers, dual wielding, unlock Great Sword, merit for more sword dmg, haste, parry, etc.

stuff like that.

[Kurokikaze]

Almost everything you said in that post I implied in my OP ("redistributing some abilities"). Thats my bad, I should've made that clearer... But I thought it was obvious that thats what I was going with.

Of course I'm taking GLA's tanking abilities and tossing them into the PLD section. The GLA has no use for it and theres no point to make even more copy/pasted abilities just so they both have it.

Your second point in regards to skills/traits and stuff. It sounds cool and could work either way. All I'd like to see is a nice GUI to go with it (trees are the easiest example to relate to for MMO players which is why I suggested it).

[javid]

I am not an avid MMO fan, but after perfect world tree and WOW tree I am sick of seeing trees ><. And I find them intimating when you work yourself down one or two branches but have 5+ other branches that are barely touched. But we most understand that some variation of trees will be incorporated.

Side note where did you find grade 4 waters to fish in that are not Cassiopeia Hollow?

[Kurokikaze]

Sick of trees, sure. Could make it a license grid, sphere grid, or crystarium just to make you happy. Again "Talent tree" is just an easily recognizable MMO-term.

Beach north of Bald Knoll just be careful not to agro stuff.

[darkstarpoet1]

I am not an avid MMO fan, but after perfect world tree and WOW tree I am sick of seeing trees ><. And I find them intimating when you work yourself down one or two branches but have 5+ other branches that are barely touched. But we most understand that some variation of trees will be incorporated.

Side note where did you find grade 4 waters to fish in that are not Cassiopeia Hollow?

grade 4, cassiophia hollow, camp glory, nophica wells, humblehearth as well as you will find some ods and ends in different locations those are the main spots.

[Siatdiat]

It's really sad how many people here can't read, or can read but not comprehend.

For the people saying that Paladin or Dark Knight should be started over at level 1, the thing is what is proposed here is not a new job. It is a focus of the Gladiator job. Kuro has mentioned more than once that you will need to start the "focus" back at level 30. So at 30 you are not becoming a Paladin or Dark Knight, you are becoming a tanking focused Gladiator, with the name changed to give people a final fantasy warm and fuzzy. Same with Dark Knight, it isn't a new class, it is a damage dealing focused Gladiator. Once you level both of these you can switch between these "focuses." If that isn't clear say so and I will get you into a vent somewhere and get you hooked on phonics.

The other issue people can't seem to get is people don't understand that a license board and a talent tree are both the same thing, just with different graphic representations. The point of it is to make classes more customizable and to keep balance within one class. For those who thing there should be no limit to what abilities you can use on what class, just stop posting because that effectively will do one of two, or both, of these things. 1. Ultimately, all players will level all classes to 50, and use the best abilities in a cookie cutter combo that will be the best. Devs will be forced to develop content based on these combos, and ultimately, there will be no point in bothering with worse combinations. 2. Same, except there will be a best combo for each role in a party, i.e. Tank, DD, healer/support. Most likely both, as people will use the ultimate solo combo solo, and the ultimate role combo valid for what task they are doing in a party. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS BLAND, KILL YOURSELF!

There are alot of other issues people can't seem to get straight. The concept as laid out by Kuro is that all the level 30 and below abilities will still be cross classable, just subject to balancing by weakening the power of it so it isn't overpowered. The plan set forth here is great, and promotes a good balance of choices with a good balance of limitations.

It is unavoidable that ultimately there will still be cookie cutter combos. However, if the game play experience is varied, the options will be varied to meet those purposes. Also, since 14 is much more solo friendly, those who want to be special like snowflakes/butterflies can solo when people don't want their pointless hybrid in a group for higher end content. The system proposed here, once again, is awesome. Why? Because it lets you snowflakes play how you want, but be able to adjust to a group situation for group content if required. If you refuse to adjust your playstyle when working in a group that is really more your problem than the balance of this design.

If I am unclear please post and I'll try to figure out what language forums you are looking for because it isn't english.

To Kuro, if I am mistaken in any part here just quote it and correct it, but I think its pretty straight forward and I have tried to help clarify what you are trying to say a bit.

[Kurokikaze]

That was pretty spot on Siat. Thanks.

Only thing I'd add is that 30 isn't the branch off point anymore. Think a bunch of us decided that 20ish was better. 30 seems too far to start gearing towards a role in a group.