[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Betelgeuzah]

Yes. In WoW it works like this 5 points > 10 > 15 > 20 > 25 > 30. The points don't have to be spent on that exact tier but they must be spent cumulative throughout the previous tiers before moving on (with the exception of the first obviously).

Yeah I'm aware of it, but what about the rest of my post? Why like this instead of like that? As long as pre-rank 30 skills (that aren't spec-based) are kept cross-classable while everything else is class-specific, it should replace the need for "tiers".

[Kurokikaze]

Because I had no objection. Both methods work and work well. lol

In mine I restrict it so that people can dip into other specs but not too far in. In yours you want to keep it within one spec and allow people to pick wherever they want. Both methods have been done in other games and they both work.

I'm fine with either or as they both promote balance and uniqueness among the classes/specs.

[Betelgeuzah]

In mine I restrict it so that people can dip into other specs but not too far in. In yours you want to keep it within one spec and allow people to pick wherever they want. Both methods have been done in other games and they both work.

Well, I don't necessarily mean it that way. Like I said, pre-rank 30 skills (which could equal "tier 1" or "2" in your system) are usable cross-class, so while you have to stay within one class the cross-class abilities from pre-30 represent the later specs of other classes even though they might be more generalized and obviously weaker, and you also keep the ability to pick wherever you want.... everything pre-30 and class-specific post-30.

I don't think it has been done this way... but I could be wrong.

[Kurokikaze]

Pre-rank 30 skills? You mean the ones from the base class?

Yeah I always said that those should be used cross-class the only thing is that I feel the line needs to be drawn where the branching out / advanced job quests start.

Oh nevermind I see what you mean. Yeah thats fine. lol

[Shuichi]

To further illustrate Kuro's idea, let's take an individual case: Paladin

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9...nchcasepal.png

As you can see from this flow of character development. Paladin builds off Gladiator and is an evolution of the base class. You still have full access to all the things you've learned as a Gladiator, but you also now have access to actions specific to Paladin and more advanced versions of actions that you learned as a Gladiator. So you can still mix and match actions up until a certain point. But as you continue down the path of Paladin, you surpass being just a mere Gladiator and now wield your sword and shield with purpose. To protect your friends and citizens of Eorzea. As you level up you can eventually equip Paladin specific armor and look all spiffy.

[Brightshadow]

I like the idea, but a idea like this can take a very long time to put in the game because of many reasons. First I believe that the basic classes should get abilities no matter what rank it is, and those abilities they learn can be shared by the others which is the current system in place. Now for a system like the one you are suggesting to work it would take around a year or so to work because its not a basic talent system. There are many things that need to be considered when adding a suggestion like this like.
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Compilations

-New GUI Design for development of the jobs
-Testing (To make sure nothing broken)
-Balance(Make all trees useful none more useful than the other) (Usually impossible)
-New weapons (Since you can unlock them with points like rapiers) (which will also require a freelancer class since you can reset points and lose your weapon.)
-New animations for spells/Abilities
-New job specific traits.
-New job specific armor.
-If all the Discipline of War and magic have 2 development plans thats 14 new development plans for jobs. (Thats leaving out the Discipline of the hand and land)
-Don't forget as well we have the guild of muskeeter and arcanist so either they will have to also be basic classes, or the guilds will have to be redesigned to something else, and the abilities that have been made for those two classes would have to be spread to the advance classes.
-Might require some lore changing.
-Etc
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Idea for a design
Now don't get me wrong while it would take a lot of time to put a idea like this in the game, it has a lot of potential, and I have a Idea for a possible name for the idea instead of the "Talent tree" and a idea for a design. Keep in mind I had this planned for 3 Potential growth routes.

Design
Ok lol im not a very good artist so I will describe to the best of my abilities a cool design for the development of jobs.

Job Pyramid

~What is the job pyramid? Basically a Job Pyramid is the Talent Tree system I had envisioned for FFXIV, its main purpose is to introduce the development of how classes will be defined with a job role.

-It's a see though pyramid with a light in the middle. (Color of light varies with job) (think FFXIII development chart)
-The out side has a bunch of dots that are the upgrades,abilities,weapons,spells,etc
-The top has the ultimate abilities for each job. (if rank is increased can easily be adjusted by lowing the older abilities down in the pyramid.)
-The most developed Pyramid middle light will shine brightly while the other Pyramids will be dim.
-When you are a class like conjurer it will only show the pyramids you can improve for example the white mage pyramid and the black pyramid.
-Nothing learned from the Pyramids can be cross-equipped.
-You can reset points but little by little similar to the Attitudes as a penalty to prevent players from instantly from switching jobs roles with the class.
-You do not need to focus on one Pyramid but by not focusing on one you will seriously hinder yourself. due to not being developed in neither pyramids.
-To unlock a pyramid you must do the level 15 Quest requirement for that job.
-Every class has pyramids that need to be developed.
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What can you gain out of the Pyramids?
-EVERYTHING from the pyramids is exclusive to the class you are currently.

~Spells
~Abilities
~Traits (Improve current class abilities, or Introduce new features)
~New Weapons choices like (Rapiers,Axes,Scythe,Guns,etc)
~Stat Improvements (Attack +5,Piety +2,etc)
~Special Armor (AF,Relic,etc)
~Race Specific Improvement Traits/Abilities (EX:Roeg playing Warrior would get a Trait called Roeg Rage which increases damage done when HP is critical) (This will make Races a bit more unique, and allow more features for future races rather than just Looks, and lore.)
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Advance points
What are Advance points? Advance points is the point system used to go futher in the pyramid.

-All Pyramids share the same amount of Upgrades none has more or less.
-You get enough points at max level to fill one Pyramid up meaning if you Cross-Equip you will not be a specialist in any job.
-Reset point system similar to Attributes points.
________________________________________________________________________Anyways what do you guys think of the idea?

[Kurokikaze]

You put a different name on it and pretty much said the same thing. lol

If you take the squares in the license board and organize them in the form of a triangle with the best skills at the top...

Hello talent tree.

You're proposing a different GUI and that'll still work with the original concept.

[Brightshadow]

I never said it wasn't a talent tree, I was just offering a new design for it, and ideas of what should be added in it.

[Youngblood]

If I replaced the word "Base Classes" with "<Weapon> User" and kept the name "Advanced Classes" or used "Job" for the traditional FF classes. What I've laid out would still work with no other changes because it's the same thing.

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter what they call it. As long as players can relate to it they will approach it.



What I was trying to avoid was getting rid of disciplines and putting them on certain paths. If I take your suggestion and put it along with mine I would give PUG the option to go become a DNC. Instead of starting a new base, Entertainer in your case, and going from there.

Either route needs lore attached to it; but I think my approach requires less and can be built on top.

Ok agreed. Was just trying to add to the job tree lol

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah. heh

Unfortunately I'm not artist either so I can't make anything that looks as visually appealing as a Sphere Grid, or FFXIII version.