[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Nyx]

You wouldnt be able to mix and match right from the start because that would lead to what we have now: people picking whats best from each and putting it all together.

You will have a set number of points that must be spent in BLM before you could spend any in WHM and RDM. And to keep the chance of exploiting low you limit that to things lower down the ladder in WHM and RDM. I wouldn't want to see a BLM running around with Cure IV or Refresh. Get what I mean? This is whats killing the classes now.

@ bersha-sensei While theres a place for PvP in the future of this game - it is certainly not now. PVP when it is introduced needs to be in a controlled environment and not open world for balancing issues how they did it in XI (except more fun).

Your suggestion would turn XIV into XI-2 with PVP in it which is not what I'm for.

I agree with the idea of having a set number of points that i have to be spent in blm before I could spend any in whm and rdm. But I would like to be able to complete the trees (or liscence board) and use all of the abilities I unlocked on my classes regardless of what class I am. I just feel like if I leveled something up I should be able to use it, but my proficiency in it will be much less than the original class it was intended for.

Kind of like the sphere grid system in FFX for example Yuna the summoner/white mage could eventually go through the whole grid and use black magic if you got enough points. there would be barriers where you would have to unlock the ability to get to black magic.

In an MMO I'm thinking that a quest would be a good barrier along with a certain number of points that you need to have in one of the other advanced classes before you could be able to use that ability from a on.

For example you would have to have 50 points on black mage before you could progress to red mage, and then if you wanted to use refresh on black mage you would have to break one of those barriers with a quest and certain number of points.

I guess the overlapping is what some people see as killing the classes as of now, but I think it is keeping them alive. I can play under the name and use the weapon that I like and use the abilities that I like, even though it may not be as good as the intended class, I can make something of my own.

[Kurokikaze]

I agree with the idea of having a set number of points that i have to be spent in blm before I could spend any in whm and rdm. But I would like to be able to complete the trees (or liscence board) and use all of the abilities I unlocked on my classes regardless of what class I am. I just feel like if I leveled something up I should be able to use it, but my proficiency in it will be much less than the original class it was intended for.

Kind of like the sphere grid system in FFX for example Yuna the summoner/white mage could eventually go through the whole grid and use black magic if you got enough points. there would be barriers where you would have to unlock the ability to get to black magic.

In an MMO I'm thinking that a quest would be a good barrier along with a certain number of points that you need to have in one of the other advanced classes before you could be able to use that ability from a on.

For example you would have to have 50 points on black mage before you could progress to red mage, and then if you wanted to use refresh on black mage you would have to break one of those barriers with a quest and certain number of points.

I guess the overlapping is what some people see as killing the classes as of now, but I think it is keeping them alive. I can play under the name and use the weapon that I like and use the abilities that I like, even though it may not be as good as the intended class, I can make something of my own.

You're handpicking the best abilities from something and forming your own. You now have no use for the other. You have killed that class thats what I explained.

As for the trees/grid have blocks to unlock higher tiered stuff in other trees; I just don't see it fair for the reason I stated above. Something like Refresh as much as it would be nice to have on BLM should stay specific to RDM. Thats what makes it a RDM.

There really needs to be more options than there are points because maxing out an entire grid means everyone will be the same in the end. We, as players, want to play around with builds and figure out what works best. As I said before it's all an illusion after the fact but the players figured out what was best and thats what counts.

[Killirz]

I hope your idea is on the next poll

[Sephr]

I had a small fright when the words 'talent tree' were used (I really hate WoW's trees, it's pretty much an illusion of customisation), but those look great!

Something like this would really help make the game unique whilst adding a relevance and quality that's expected in a modern MMO.

[Kurokikaze]

Theres absolutely nothing unique about this. I took a tried and true concept and I switched words around to appeal to Final Fantasy fans.

Everything is an illusion of customization - when all the theorycrafting is done; you're going to pick what works best. Lemme know if you find a BLM that had merits in Stone. :/

[Nharil]

Fantastic post, Kurokikaze! This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to read on the forums since they've opened, and you've done an amazing job and explaining your ideas. I feel like this system would blend into the current armory system beautifully, and it would really help to push the "FINAL FANTASY" feel to the level that a lot of players are hoping for.

I've spent a good amount of time theorizing the different directions that an "advanced job" system could work like myself, and while we share some of the same thoughts, you've thought of a lot of great smaller detail-oriented concepts that really make it shine. Kudos!

On talent trees, I think the same basic concept could be used, and just spun into FINAL FANTASY lore in a much more interesting way (as Kuro's mentioned, in not so many words). Rather than a tree, the same principles could easily be transferred to a different visual system while still giving us control over our characters, a variety of different ways to build them, yet still feel fresh. Like you said, it's all an illusion

[Kurokikaze]

My only concern with this idea is that a class-specific system makes it hard on some of the more specialized classes to solo. This is why I believe they tried the multiple-class abilities approach, but I think we all realized that it takes too much away from enjoying the job you're playing and made leveling into a giant ability grab. All I am wondering is if anybody has ideas on how to make Kuro's system more enjoyable/easier for solo players?

One of my initial thoughts was to just encourage duo play rather than to keep the emphasis on solo play. I feel like duos are easy to create for casual players and they encourage making friends, which is what develops a strong MMO community.

SP/EXP rewards from quests. Anything that you do on your class should reward you with progress to your class. Again, it works in every other solo-grind-to-top MMO.. With proper execution it will work here. lol

Some of the base class skills can be used across the spec. So say for a CON/WHM soloing they would have low tiered elemental nukes (Fire, Blizzard, etc) and their higher level offensive spells (Holy, Banish anything else they could come up with).

[Zamiel]

no talent tree or limited set of skill, Armory System is best way to create personal your personal class/play style.

Is much better, imo, introduce Advance job/skill, with new name or classic it is not important, with unlock special, and unique, trait to improve the skill from job necesseray to unlock them and new, few, skill

( like
GLD30 + CON 20 = Templar [ or PLD ] with special trait "Presence" → when you'll use Guard skill increase armor to the party memeber for x sec and "Holy Strike" → ws 1000tp deal Astral DMG and increse Emnity when used on undead/demod mob type
or
THA20 + CON30 = Priest [ or White Mage ] with special tait "Stay Strong" → increase duration and efficenty by x% of your Protect and Shell and "Ensa" → heal and remove one negative status
or
THA30 + CON20 = Warlock [ or Black Mage ] with special tait "Toxine" → increase duration and efficenty by x% of your Poison and heal you and party members by 50% damage deal and "Mana Break" → if target is a caster type you are able to explode his mana to deal damage
or
GLD30 + CON20 = Battle Mage [ or Red Mage ] with special tait "Battle Magic" → Offensive spell now are Istant cast but cd is increase by 50% and damge descrease by 25% and "Fire/Ice/Thunder/Wind/Water Weapons" → Enchant your, and party memebrs, weapons with elemental to deal elemental dmg
or
......
or
......
)

[Nightshade]

I am not keen in replacing the current classes with "classic" FF classes so this idea really appeals to me. Wether they go with that or advanced jobs, I would be fine.

However, I do have a question that I think has not been pointed out and I would like to know more about it. In Limsa Lominsa, there is two guilds representing two classes that are not available as of now: the Arcanists and the Musketeers. Now, what I want to know is if there was announcement that those classes would eventually become available or not.

To fit more in this topic, I'll like to have your take of those two classes in your system. I know it's a little harder for Arcanist because they gave no info of what they do, but I suppose thyat Musketeers would be easier considering their weapon of choice.

[Marious]

I like what you came up with but you are limiting the character, putting restrictions when as of now there really are none.

Yes the way things are the jobs as a whole seem to have no soul, but then again this is because stats are broken as a whole. For example, you are a THM and supposedly what you should raise is your INT/PIE as a CONJ you should raise your MND/PIE. Now if you where to play your THM and use a CONJ spell the fact that your MND is not that great means the spell you use does not hit as hard as the THM spells. The same can be said for any of the classes depending on what they benefit the most from Stats wise.

Unless stats are going to go away totally then your suggestions are ok, yet you are still limiting yourself, imposing limitations on your character is a bad idea overall. Does it make the character better for some? Probably, but for others all your doing is going back to the Holy Trinity that they wanted to get away from to begin with. But the way they implemented it was bad and it failed miserably. None the less keep the idea's flowing that is the only way that we will see a better game come out of SE's mess.