[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Chinook]

Sounds like this could be a win. So here's another suggestion to think about. Force specialization after R50. Add weapon choices to base classes. For example:

Gladiator (Sword/shield, Great sword) -> Dark Knight (Great Sword), Paladin (Sword, shield)
Pugilist ((change name?)) (H2H, Dagger) -> Monk (Hand to Hand), Thief (Dagger)
Archer (Gun, Bow) -> Ranger (Bow), Corsair (Gun)

I like this idea as it's similar to what I think will happen (easy to add with the current system and not wasting people current progress).

Instead of a spec tree or whatever grid system for the new unlocked classes, why not just use the existing Guild Mark system ? You gather Guild Mark in a similar fashion (new guildleves at the many unused r50 camps, quests, instances, etc ...) and use them to buy active/passive actions/traits for the new advanced class (keeping your AF gear and other ideas).

That would make something to do for the people already r50 and isn't your typical grinding.

[Kurokikaze]

Whats terrible about Shockadin? That was actually a really good way for people to grind back in the days. I think it was a mix of Retribution and Protection trees.

I've heard dumber shit on these forums like Arcane Ranger.

[Kurokikaze]

Chinook, that was suggested a while ago and I have no objection. You can indeed use Guild Marks for this or could even use the Action points menu.

I just feel there should be a GUI attached to it that gives you a visual look at your progression into the class. With hover over explanations for what that ability/trait does when you put points into it.

[javid]

this thread is still active... lol. We've all disputed the presently viable reconstructions. Why not make a new thread that details the "easiest" transition from current system to new- easy meaning simplest financial, programming, and timeline aspects. Or o...

[Kurokikaze]

Or you can start providing something beneficial to the thread instead of bumping it if you have a problem with it.

OP#3 has a list of balances/fixes that came about after the discussions we've had in this thread. Theres no point in another thread. I plan ahead of time which is not what I can say about many others on these boards.

[Zaene]

I generally agree with the OP and having read every single post since last night; I honestly only have one major problem. I just dislike the concept of not having to "work" for your "specializations" well, sure you worked to get the "Base Class" LNC or otherwise to rank 50 or the like, but I wouldn't want to be given my "advanced class" even were I 50. I suppose
I'm just nostalgic about grabbing my first ever Great Katana and cutting down wee mandragoras. It just felt right.

As opposed to being able to at rank 50, slaughter things and level the class effortlessly.

I propose a possible addendum. If you've ever played Ragnarok Online, they have a "rebirth" system. Wherein, you lose all of your past abilities but become much more powerful when you start over. Perhaps instead of losing all your abilites you might retain some of them at lesser levels, and you can build on them. Subsequently, one can change back to the previous job and have the stats they left. However, any skills gained while that "rebirthed" class are only usable as that class.

It's a rough idea but I'm working on it.

[Kurokikaze]

This rebirth is for specs after the initial choice correct? First choice is free but rebirth after ya?

I'm not for this, but I'm not against it either. It could be implemented with this and it could work. This'll be more along the line of something Hyan would like since its more or less what we were discussing earlier today.

[Ayerc]

First off, forgive me. I'm late to the party and though I read the original post(s), there's no way I can make it through 54 pages of follow up discussion.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you suggesting that once a player unlocks a specialization, that will then be at the same level as the base class which unlocked it? I.E. GLA unlocks PLD @ R30, PLD is essentially at R30? If that's the case, then the biggest flaw is that we never expand beyond the 7 base classes we have now.

One of the things that worked about XI was that unlocking classes meant you had to start from level 1. It expanded our gameplay immensely. In this system, it won't take that long for someone to cap all 7 base classes, and then be maxed on all specializations. I'd much rather unlock the specialization, then have to re-rank it from 1. From a lore standpoint, you have to train in the skills to master them, ya? You keep players going back to the starting point, also eliminating some concerns about new players being on their own and crafters having more customers (assuming rank-free gear is changed.)

How do you plan to introduce new classes? How many specializations does that ultimately lead to, keeping in mind the immense task of keeping everything balanced?

Edit: looks like Zaene had the same concern.

[Kurokikaze]

^ the questions you made lead me to ask whether you read and understood the OP. Those questions were very clearly (I think) explained. I even gave an outline of how to go about introducing these new classes...

You're thinking of these classes as just something new like in XI and thats the wrong way to look at it. These classes are just a focus for the base class. Paladin is a Gladiator that specializes at taking/mitigating damage. Dark Knight is a Gladiator that specializes in dealing damage. Etc etc. Get out of the XI mindset and you will see this. XI's "Advanced Classes" weren't necessarily an "Advanced Class" they were just an extra class.

Seriously man, I hate to say it... But answering that I felt like we took like 2 steps back from the OP.

The problem you have with this method is that we're doing it fairly late into the game's lifespan so it doesn't feel likes it makes sense. For someone that started and is leveling normally it will make a world of sense. I laid out this proposal with that in mind while also remembering that I cant leave your 48 PUG out to dry.

[Zaene]

Yes, it is for specs after initial choice of say GLA. You then level and choose DRK. Then you are "rebirthed" as a DRK you keep some of your GLA skills and begin accruing DRK only skills. The primary reason for the splitting in my reasoning is the problem of 'never starting the advanced class from 1'. Yes, you mention that the skills will be "level 1" but it's only really in concept not actually in deed. I'd like to fight level 1 monsters, and have that old timey "thrill" of starting over.

It's honestly what I liked so much about FFXI. Being able to start over as new classes.