[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Jericho]

Vega, just to clarify, what Kuro originally proposed and what Ayerc and I have been discussing, still allows for the same degree of uniqueness. All the abilities and traits you've been using to construct your own DRK are still in effect here. All we're adding is a few specialized class abilities/traits and a unique weapon type. All those abilities and traits that are already usable on GLA will be usable on GLA: DRK, along with some new ones.

[VagabondPriest]

I have been reading back a few pages to see the discussion to see if I could find an answer, and I seen DRK, PLD or any Job so be it, is just a title to change the stats around and introduce separate skills with no rank on its own except unlocking the skills am I right?

So my only remaining complaint which is my main one is why restrict the job to just 1 class? Unless you mean it takes one class to unlock it, but you can freely equip said job with any class within its Discipline with the freedom of using a spear, an axe, a sword and shield.

As I said before when I use different abilities with different classes they just don't work the same as it would with the original class so that's why I would like to equip a job to enchance what I am missing to use the ability of other jobs with better effect.

So what you are saying I can have the DRK abilities then equip some of it's abilities without having DRK job equip on LNC with a LNC class? Kinda like the same system we have on now, no?

I have been reading Ayerc about earning skills for an ability be it fighting more or paying more for an ability to be better attune to it and not worry about having said ability not working as well with a different class. I could understand that but just because somebody doesn't like the idea of a ARC/DRK doesn't mean I don't wanna try it for fun knowing I am gonna take a hit in Stats and accuracy. Main thing about DRK job I would see my self getting it other than just equiping spells around to get the same effect on any class is the improvement of Stats and improvement of usage of dark spells. Which is why I would like to equip a job on a class rather than picking its abilities for others.

Hahahah writing all this sounds like sub jobs when I know its not. Maybe I need to read more anyways I am confusing myself and probably for the best I quit on this good luck guys!!! Thanks for the answers Jericho and Ayerc

[Jericho]

lol well... I believe you're mostly right Vega. There are some skills that would be specific to a Dark Knight and some skills you could equip on your Lancer (and advanced jobs associated) for a penalty. Yes, very similar to the way it is now. There are Gladiator skills that would work best for DRK's and PLD's (Gladiator is no longer playable, it levels with your DRK and PLD) that can be equipped on any job, equivalent to the way it is now for everyone else using a different job's skills. DRK and PLD each have their own specific weapon type that defines them, and until they are unlocked, equipping that weapon just makes your job GLA.

Kuro's original post suggests Dark Knight and Paladin being essentially the same class with a different role (comparing DRK to a PLD/NIN and then a PLD to a PLD/WAR). In that sense, your job is still tanking/damage mitigation, and with a Talent Point system you could change your specialized class very easily. Since DRK and PLD are so similar, there really is no need to level both jobs independently. Don't think of it as a DRK from FFXI, which is a magic + high attack DD that has much lower DEF. Think of it as a PLD with some DD boosts. One class (Gladiator) with two different ways to play it.

Ayerc and I have been discussing a slightly different method. Within a base class (such as Gladiator), give it two specializations (Dark Knight and Paladin, much the same as Kuro's) but make them much more specialized than Kuro's. In this sense, you can think of them more like FFXI jobs. A Dark Knight wouldn't be nearly as suitable for tanking as a Paladin. But they are similar in the sense that they both possess some magical abilities (Light and Dark) and have moves that enhance their respective professions, so they would share common abilities and traits from GLA, which would still level up with them (similar to physical level). Because the jobs are so different, instead of a Talent Point system where you could switch between the two, keeping the same level, you'd need to level both independently (in order to "learn" your job, and get the full experience, etc).

Besides that, everything else is the same with Kuro's post. I've been kinda waiting for Kuro to get back to see what he (she?) thinks about all this, too, because the majority stems off of his (her?) ideas, and I'm curious to know if and how he (she?) might implement them into his (her) plan.

[Cairdeas]

DRK and PLD each have their own specific weapon type that defines them, and until they are unlocked, equipping that weapon just makes your jobs GLA.

I would like to know which weapons you are specifically referring too because in past FF's Dark Knight was always able to use hand axes, two hand axes, swords, shields, great swords, spears, clubs and dark swords and eventually Scyths(Which came last and never again in FFXI).

While paladins were always able to use clubs, swords, shields, great swords, lances, poles(combat staffs), hammers, and two handed hammers, Bows?

Hell. Dragoon? Lances, Polearms, Swords, Wings Swords, Epees, Clubs, Staffs, Shields, Anchors and Harpoons.

Oh Wait, White Mage. Hammers, Clubs, Shields, Poles(Combat Staffs), Caster Staffs, Rackets, Two Handed Hammers, Fists.

Oh god, I can't forget Samurai. Katanas, Mystic Swords, Dark Swords, Great Katanas, Polearms, Lances, Shields, Scimitars, Clubs.

Wait a second... Thief?

Daggers, Swords, Scimitars, shields, Fists, Fencing Swords, Clubs, Throwing Weapons, Bows, CrossBows, Guns.

Corsair/Gambler/Entertainer? Dice, Cards, Darts, Guns, Rifles, Daggers, Swords, Harps, Flutes, Bells, Their Voice.

Puppet Master?... A Megaphone, a Remote Control, and a Marionette Cross... As well as fists. Oh Puppet master loses out I'll admit.


But 95% of the time in Final Fantasy No Job is limited to ONE weapon. And thats encompassing over 50 different games and added materials.

[Jericho]

I would like to know which weapons you are specifically referring too because in past FF's Dark Knight was always able to use hand axes, two hand axes, swords, shields, great swords, spears, clubs and dark swords and eventually Scyths(Which came last and never again in FFXI).

I'm only talking about this game. Currently, each class is defined by a single... Well, sometimes 2... Weapons. Gladiator = Sword (shield), Lancer = Spear, Archer = Bow. It was merely keeping it similar to the current system. The FF's I've played extensively since 7, minus 11 (7, 8, 13) main characters typically stick to one weapon type (Cloud's swords, Squall's gunblades, Lightning's gunblades). I'll admit I can't remember exactly 9 or 10, and didn't play 12.

None of this is to say that we'd HAVE to keep it the way it is and only allow one weapon type. If it's worth looking into, I'm sure there is a good suggestion waiting to be dropped. This isn't my thread however, I'm just throwing suggestions to the OP. Feel free to drop your own as well.

*** Edit: A few posts ago I threw out some suggestions about class specific weapons that could be implemented using this one weapon type system. ***

[Cairdeas]

I'm only talking about this game. Currently, each class is defined by a single... Well, sometimes 2... Weapons. Gladiator = Sword (shield), Lancer = Spear, Archer = Bow. It was merely keeping it similar to the current system. The FF's I've played extensively since 7, minus 11 (7, 8, 13) main characters typically stick to one weapon type (Cloud's swords, Squall's gunblades, Lightning's gunblades). I'll admit I can't remember exactly 9 or 10, and didn't play 12.

None of this is to say that we'd HAVE to keep it the way it is and only allow one weapon type. If it's worth looking into, I'm sure there is a good suggestion waiting to be dropped. This isn't my thread however, I'm just throwing suggestions to the OP. Feel free to drop your own as well.

The reasons each class only have one weapon is because they are Weapon Classes not Job Classes. And no Gladiator does not have shield as one of its weapons. Sentinel does. You become a Gladiator/Sentinel when you equip a shield on Gladiator. it just doesn't reflect that in game. The thread linked in my sig explains everything much better.

[Jericho]

The reasons each class only have one weapon is because they are Weapon Classes not Job Classes. And no Gladiator does not have shield as one of its weapons. Sentinel does. You become a Gladiator/Sentinel when you equip a shield on Gladiator. it just doesn't reflect that in game. The thread linked in my sig explains everything much better.

I hadn't read that thread, but skimmed it just now. I did read the other thread that seems to be popular about the job titles, which seems to go along with your signature thread. I personally just like this idea more. Though, both would solve the problems.

[Kurokikaze]

It doesn't matter what they call them or what you think they are.

Hmm wish my thread could've gotten moved to a particular discussion section...

[Jericho]

Hmm wish my thread could've gotten moved to a particular discussion section...

Me too. It's a great idea.

[Brightshadow]

Ok so I been thinking about the idea a bit more, and now that I think about it what I would prefer is for SE to put some limitations on the cross-skill use, and release new classes in the FF tactics form. Here is how I think a system like this could function.

Limitation System
~The point of the Limitation system is to put penalties for using skills from other classes, this system is not designed to prevent the freedom the Armory system provides, but instead offer penalties to balance out the original class vs the borrower.

Setting Points
-If you set a skill from another class, it cost 1/4 more points. For example lets say a skill cost 8 points to set, for another class it would cost 10 for the borrower.

Strength
-If you set a skill from another Class in your Discipline it would be 10% weaker.
-If you set a skill from another Discipline in your skills it would be 15% weaker. (For example im a marauder equip drain it would be 15% weaker.)

Conclusion
-Basically what the Limitation system offers is to make any class, in any way you desire, but with a penalty.
________________________________________________________________________

Changes
-Double the cost of MP for spells when used in AOE form.
-Make traits unique to each class. This would be the form of keeping classes unique since the bonuses of traits they would receive would only be equipable under the correct class.
-Changes to some Spells/Abilities (EX:Remove the instance heal from Sacrifice and just make it regen)
-The classes that have 2 weapons remove 1. (EX:Remove Dagger from Gla)
________________________________________________________________________

Secret Classes (Unlockable Classes)
Similar to FFXI/FFT I think when you meet a certain Criteria you should be able to unlock a quest and unlock a new class. This class would have it own weapon like the others to keep the uniqueness of the armory system but to use the weapon you would first need to unlock the class, if not you cannot equip the weapon.

Classes
~I decided to keep the current naming scheme because I find it to be quite clever, and quirky plus its a new Fantasy.
~I decided the requirements to unlock a class should be the following for Disciplines of magic and War R20 in the appropriate classes, Disciplines of the land and hand R10 .
~All classes have there own guilds, I think it would be interesting to add them to the little villages outside the main city-states, or heck it could also be added as a new section of the city states.

1.Conjurer(R20)+Thaumaturge (R20)= Cleric(Quest:Divine Pilgrimage)
2,Archer(R20)+Blacksmith(R10)+Goldsmith(R10)=Musketeer (Quest:Royal Jewels)
3.Gladiator(R20)+Marauder(R20)=Barbarian (Quest:The forgotten Warriors)
4.Alchemist(R10)+Leatherworker(R10)=Runemaker (Quest:Unusual Symbols)
5.Lancer(R20)+Culinarian(R10)=Jockey (Quest:Injured Companion)
6.Pugilist(R20)+Armorer(R10)+Carpenter(R10)=Puppeteer (Quest:Broken Puppet)
7.Botanist(R10)+Fisher(R10)+Weaver(R10)=Shepherd (Quest:Animal Insects)
8.Puppeteer(R20)+Runemaker(R10)=Mime (Quest:unusual request)
9.Cleric(R20)+Shepherd(R10)=Bard (Quest:Music for the soul)
10.Musketeer(R20)+Bard(R20)=Corsair (Quest:Pirate Treasure)
11,Corsair(R20)+Marauder(R20)=Assassin (Quest:Unpaid Bounty)
12.Conjurer(R20)+Puppeteer(R20)+Cleric(R20)=Evoker (Quest:Forbidden Magic)

Weapons/Role/Discipline
1.Cleric (Weapon:Rods)/(Role:Healer&Buffer)(Discipline of magic)
2.Muskeeter (Weapon:Rifle)/(Role:DD)(Discipline of war)
3.Barbarian (Weapon:Great Hammers)(Role:DD&Tank)(Discipline of war)
4.Runemaker (Weapon:Parchment)(Role:Adds Bonus to equipment)(Discipline of hand)
5.Jockey (Weapon:Rapiers)(Role:Tank&Mount fighter)(Discipline of war)
6.Puppeteer (Weapon:Animators) (Role:Hybrid)(Discipline of Magic)
7.Shepherd (Weapon:Knife) (Role:Gains materials from mobs) (Discipline of land)
8.Mime (Weapon:Slingshot) (Role:Hybrid,Monster magic) (Discipline of magic)
9.Bard (Weapon:Flute) (Role:Buffer over time) (Discipline of magic)
10.Corsair (Weapon:Pistols) (Role:DD/Buffer) (Discipline of magic)
11.Assassin (Weapon:Dagger) (role:Tactic user/DD) (Discipline of war)
12.Evoker (Weapon:Staffs) (role:Hybrid) (Discipline of magic)