[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Zaene]

Yes, it is for specs after initial choice of say GLA. You then level and choose DRK. Then you are "rebirthed" as a DRK you keep some of your GLA skills and begin accruing DRK only skills. The primary reason for the splitting in my reasoning is the problem of 'never starting the advanced class from 1'. Yes, you mention that the skills will be "level 1" but it's only really in concept not actually in deed. I'd like to fight level 1 monsters, and have that old timey "thrill" of starting over.

It's honestly what I liked so much about FFXI. Being able to start over as new classes.

[Kurokikaze]

Ok... Now what happens to GLA? Thats the problem with what you're suggesting.

You just added DRK for the sake of adding DRK. You have not addressed the problem with the current classes - GLA in this case.

You're treating GLA as some unnecessary, extra grind to get into what you want to do and throwing it off the cliff when you're done. I feel that is the completely wrong way to go about it and why I have yet to see any other proposal that is better than what I've suggested.

[Zaene]

You're assuming that's what I intended. I think there needs to be more initiative to level those "base classes". You would keep your GLA levels, but these new classes would come from the base classes. Perhaps at high levels something is learned on those base classes that makes them attractive. You could change back to GLA, or play DRK. I have no intention of 'doing away with' the base classes. Perhaps GLA at high levels gets "Mighty Strikes" and no other class gets it and it's not cross-classable.

My big point of contention is the fact that I feel one should be able to fully experience classes like SAM or DRK. Not have them as simply specializations.

[Kurokikaze]

You're assuming that's what I intended. I think there needs to be more initiative to level those "base classes". You would keep your GLA levels, but these new classes would come from the base classes. Perhaps at high levels something is learned on those base classes that makes them attractive. You could change back to GLA, or play DRK. I have no intention of 'doing away with' the base classes. Perhaps GLA at high levels gets "Mighty Strikes" and no other class gets it and it's not cross-classable.

My big point of contention is the fact that I feel one should be able to fully experience classes like SAM or DRK. Not have them as simply specializations.

Again, you're not fixing anything and adding to the mess. Ok so you keep your GLA levels (because we cant make you re-grind) but SE now has to balance this class against the others.

How does GLA stand on its own is a better way to re-phrase the question. By the way.. what you're suggesting is not even specializations they are brand new classes.


@Ayerc

I agree its a huge task in balancing since you end up with 14 playable outcomes at endgame. Though this is remedied by the fact that most of the work is already done and you just have to move things around. Although its 14 playable outcome they're just 14 good ones out of the many that are currently available. People can and are doing this now - all we're doing is putting a name on it basically.

In regards to brand new classes... In order to add those they need to add a new Base Class (a weapon) and then add 2 specs that could branch off from that. As Jericho suggested:

Ronin (Katana, Great Katanas) -> Ninja (Katanas) / Samurai (Great Katana).


Whats stopping someone from taking a ton of CON/THM spells, some attack buffs, etc and calling themselves a DRK? <--- Using our current system.

Correct, nothing is stopping them and its not what is being balanced for.

[VagabondPriest]

Again, you're not fixing anything and adding to the mess. Ok so you keep your GLA levels (because we cant make you re-grind) but SE now has to balance this class against the others.

How does GLA stand on its own is a better way to re-phrase the question. By the way.. what you're suggesting is not even specializations they are brand new classes.

Whats stopping someone from taking a ton of CON/THM spells, some attack buffs, etc and calling themselves a DRK? <--- Using our current system.

Correct, nothing is stopping them and its not what is being balanced for.

I disagree, the whole point of adding Jobs on the classes is to concentrate on different stats and bring in some unique abilities atop of the class you mix it with, and when SE takes out the Point System of Stats and have each class its own set of Stats. Based on the class customizing Jobs will help the player reach their goals. A GLA is not a Paladin since he can still do quite the damage on his own and when equipping a paladin you are sacrificing Att for Def. Also you might want to rank up GLA on its own just to keep the neutral stats.

I understand this is not what you are arguing, but I am a fan of DRK and I leveled CON and THM just to make my DoW classes into a DRK and I had a great deal of fun trying out the different types with ARC, MRD, LNC, PUG and GLA. I was greatly disappointed that even with the Stats I had which favored Mages my drain would do so little damage, plus I do not have the AoE that a THM or CON does (which I completely understand that we need a little restriction to create a balance). I even allocated my elemental stats to favor dark spells following Zam input for Spells attributes which I now am seeing doesnt really make a differents. So It makes sense having a DRK job to equip on any class to improve not only your STR and INT but take away your VIT and MND. The DRK would also improve on your dark elemental stats (or the elemental Stats that dark is based on).

Anyways I am just saying earning a job meaning I went through the quests, did what I did to earn it, or be it I had to skill up the weapon like in FF2 (japan version which is re-release all over the place) just to use it with other class I don't mine as long as I can customize my character and be different from other people. Having a whole bunch of GLA/DRK is not unique and sounds to much FFXI which I agree is a awesome game but I am playing FFXIV for its freedom and not the restrictions.

P.S. I understand everything is just a idea and concept you guys like so I am not trying to bash your thoughts in any way. In truth I believe your idea will bring out more challenge to the game then my own idea as my concept sounds more for soloing than team playing. So please forgive my thoughts on the subject.

[Ayerc]

Again, late to the party, trying to grasp the concept here. Perhaps I worded my post wrong. My main concern is that we don't have more than 7 base classes with this system. I understand your proposal as posted in the OP. The specialization isn't a new class, it's an augmentation to the existing ones. Once my GLA is R50 though, I can freely swap between PLD and DRK. We get 14 specializations for the price of 7.

If you outlined something about new classes, I'm not seeing it. Adding new classes is including 2 specializations for each of those, again, a huge task to keep everything balanced while trying to maintain uniqueness.

Zaene is resonating with what I'm saying here.

[Hadeed]

I would like to see the FF8 system where every character can equip one summon to add to his powers. If he wants melee power while he is mage he can use Ifrit for example.

Summons has skill trees as well so you can use those abilities from the summon if you unlock them. FF12 system is really nice one to have. with Summon added to your character you can become any type you like. Atma system in FF11 but with summon instead .

and PLEASE SE if you doing combat animation try to make it really heavy and cool, the sound of the attacks and the feeling of the hits really important, make it feel like real fighting. sound effects really has huge impact of how we like to use the character , with great animation as well.

classic jobs in FF has also tree skills will be great to have with some sub trees from other jobs as well.

[Jericho]

I can see where Zaene and Ayerc are coming from. Even if we end up with 20 advanced jobs, thats really only 10 grinds. to have all 20 advanced jobs completely leveled. At least thats the way I think I'm seeing it. And then switching advanced jobs is as easy as switching your talent points. If I am misinterpreting, I apologize. Here's another alternate suggestion that you can implement/consider (again, free of charge)

You're right, 50 is too high. I was only trying to account for the fact that 50 is already the cap. Let's change that to 30 and do something else with these other 20 levels later.

You begin leveling Gladiator, from level 1 to 30, using a Great Sword or a Sword and Shield. When you hit 30, you are now allowed to begin the specialization. You do the unlock quest for Dark Knight and the quest for Paladin. Now, every time you equip a Great Sword, your class is set as "Gladiator: Dark Knight", and every time you equip a Sword and Shield, your class becomes "Gladiator: Paladin". Of course, people would shorten the terms to Paladin and Dark Knight, but listed on the Status page, they would have the full name. Your Paladin and Dark Knight, as will be the case with all advanced jobs, are unlocked at level 30, and begin with all the abilities of your Gladiator, which is currently level 30.

Now, lets say you level up your Dark Knight to level 45, then decide you want to be a Paladin. Your Gladiator, along with your Dark Knight, are level 45. Your Paladin, however, is still down at level 30. You switch your class to "Gladiator: Paladin" and your level is pushed down to 30. But, because your Gladiator level is higher than 30, you gain a boost to your Paladin (Because, at this point, physical levels are gone, so your Gladiator level becomes a sort of Physical Level for your advanced Dark Knight and Paladin). As you gain levels with your Paladin, your Gladiator continues to climb, unlocking some abilities and traits you can use on either Paladin or Dark Knight. Let's say you get to level 45 with Paladin, then switch back to Dark Knight. You're now a 45 Dark Knight, but your Gladiator continued to climb on Paladin, so now you've got a couple more abilities and a maxed "Physical Level" type role from Gladiator of 50 or almost 50.

Also, to clarify, lets say you don't unlock Dark Knight, just Paladin. If you switch to a Great Sword, you become solely "Gladiator" and can continue to play that way. It would be a painful way to max Gladiator to 50, or whatever the level cap is at this point, which would boost your Dark Knight and Paladin when you start them, which would still be down at level 30.

For Zaene and Ayerc: Think of it this way. You CAN start by equipping your first Katana AND Great Katana at level 1, when SE releases that base/advanced job combination. When you hit 30 and unlock the advanced classes, you've got 2 jobs at level 30, both of which you've played, enjoyed, gotten the full effect of, while only really have to completely grind once, because all your abilities and traits are that of a level 30 "Ronin" type character, with maybe one trait that allows shows your specialization so far. You unlock both and you essentially have 2 identical jobs ready to be leveled, sharing a "physical level".

Again, use anything you wish Kuro, and I will always say I deeply appreciate what you're doing! Keep it up!

[Jericho]

**Edit**

Consider the possible addition of prerequisites for the "extra base jobs" as they are released with Expansions, such as another quest or level requirement on another base job. Maybe then those that feel nostalgic about unlocking the new jobs would get that satisfaction? (I am in that group, though I am in full support of this idea, and hope SE keeps reading at least the first 3 posts.)

[Ayerc]

That's exactly what I'm seeing and saying here, Jericho. Thanks to you for that post.

A couple of points:

I'd be all for your revision, if the R50 cap was raised to something more significant, or the specializations were unlocked earlier (around R10 or 20, 20 being more optimal based on how easy it is to get to right now). Playing PLD or DRK for only 20 ranks (30-50) is seriously limiting the enjoyment you could have with the class had you started at R1. Not to mention the experience (not points, actually learning how to use a PLD) you gain by playing the class for that long.

Once you have either specialization skills acquired, a mix and match based on your allotted trait points should still be possible. This is keeping with providing more options to the player wanting to create a unique build, what XIV was originally trying to achieve with cross class skills. To overcome issues with a completely free swap, perhaps DRK skills are less effective while subbed, however that deficit can be removed by spending guild marks to enhance the effect of subbed skills while at the same time buffing the effect of the skill when it's used on main. Sort of like meritting skills in XI, but with less limitation on the max number of upgrades. If a player chooses to invest the time and effort to enhance DRK skills so they are just as effective on PLD, why stop them?

For example: DRK skill Last Resort adds +20/10% attack at it's main/sub base. Using advanced training for Last Resort through the GLA guild via guild marks adds +1% to that main/sub base. After 5 sessions of this adv training, Last Resort is then at +25/15% main/sub. After 10, it's at +30/20%. Coupled with raising the GM cost of subsequent training, this should be deemed fair.