[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Kurokikaze]

Would you prefer to be locked into 1 upgrade per base class?

[northernsky]

Would you prefer to be locked into 1 upgrade per base class?

There is no problem at all at having multiple upgrades per basic class. It's one of the strength of this system.

The only issue I have is that following the holy path also improves your dark skills, for example.
Or forget the name of the classes. Imagine that your GLA hits 40. You learn simultaneously a technique that cuts damage in half and another that doubles your damage output. I would like maybe a little more consistency in the path I decide to follow instead of just having more abilities to choose from once I have access to my specialization.

[Kurokikaze]

There is no problem at all at having multiple upgrades per basic class. It's one of the strength of this system.

The only issue I have is that following the holy path also improves your dark skills, for example.
Or forget the name of the classes. Imagine that your GLA hits 40. You learn simultaneously a technique that cuts damage in half and another that doubles your damage output. I would like maybe a little more consistency in the path I decide to follow instead of just having more abilities to choose from once I have access to my specialization.

The way that I had envisioned that would NOT happen the way you explained. Your GLA from ranking up would not gain anything that resembles something that is PLD or DRK.

In my example:

- GLA hits 40 (learns something generic like Heavy Stab) <- an example
- You put points you earned from hitting 40 into whatever spec you are. Say you're DRK. "Oh sweet I have enough points for Souleater"

^ something like that.

@ Dreamer

I've no idea what you're trying to say with your comment nor does it fall in with what we're currently discussing. Care to elaborate?

[Betelgeuzah]

I was either thinking it would be like you can continue being glad, or you can change to paladin (two different paths) and with more classes to come in the future. But like it was said it's hard to sell the current classes to people.

Or that you can't just level pld and drk at the same time, but need to do something else to gain the benefits of the other spec (what, we haven't figured out).

[Kurokikaze]

It's possible that there could be a lockout for switching specs, make it something that would discourage people from switching often. I mean it wouldn't be that bad considering that we are still able to switch to a completely different base class if we get tired of the playstyle.

The branching off works in other MMOs because you cannot change your initial choice on a single character. They have to give you different playstyles to choose from in order to keep the game fresh. FF does let you level everything on one character and its quite possibly the greatest thing to ever happen in an MMO. So again, totally possible.

So lemme understand this.. You want:

Gladiator -> Paladin Path: Damagin or Tankadin?

Thats the only choice. It's possible and works with whats proposed. You see what I did there? I just changed names around and kept the concept intact. lol

In this example you wont argue because you're taking that Paladin and deciding to be either a tank or a DD. You don't have that thing telling you that you're leveling multiple classes at once (my initial example).

[Sniffle_Hobbitouille]

My question is, "what if I want to rank up both 'Dark Knight' and 'Paladin'?" Am I screwed after I pick a certain branch to stem from Gladiator the first time?

I might have overlooked this or it might have already been answered. If so, thanks for quoting the text for me.

[Kurokikaze]

My question is, "what if I want to rank up both 'Dark Knight' and 'Paladin'?" Am I screwed after I pick a certain branch to stem from Gladiator the first time?

I might have overlooked this or it might have already been answered. If so, thanks for quoting the text for me.

In the OP it says no. You can go back and respec when you like.

[Kurokikaze]

In retrospect that actually sounds a little better... It would cut down on the amount of classes that they need to add. Since they'll only have to introduce one for each base. But don't be fooled, they still need to come up with interesting ways to use these classes so that players have a choice. Think something like "WHM that focuses on AOE cures and one that focuses on big single target heals." Not something as cut and dry as damage/healing/tanking.

But then you run into the PLD stigma - "but PLDs are tanks waaah waaaah" etc etc and we lose either way. lol

[Jericho]

I'll throw this out there, maybe it would help you adjust your system.

What if no skills or traits obtained in the advanced classes could be used by any other class, but the skills currently obtainable in the base classes could be used by any class? So, any skill SE wanted to allow usable by multiple classes would have to be introduced into the base classes? In your current system, there is a set of skills/traits obtainable in advanced classes that may be usable by other classes. Maybe if only base classes could get skills usable in any class, it might add a more "Job/subjob" or "class/support class" feel? "A.class/B.classes". In this scenario, base classes would have to be usable, which you may have implemented in your scenarios, but this would mean.

Pug(H2H) -/> Mnk(H2H)

It would have to be something like:

Pug(H2H) -> Mnk(Gloves)

Or something like that, because equpping H2H would mean you're now a Pug.

Am I understanding that in your system, leveling a 30 Pug and doing both the unlockable advanced job classes would mean you are also (with talent points) a 30 nin and 30 pug (etc.)? If so, that would pose a problem with my suggestion. And in my opinion would propose a problem in general. Some people have mulitple 50's already, so they already would have all those jobs max ranked? Something to think about.

Apply for a job with SE. They need you.

Feel free to shoot any of this down.

[Betelgeuzah]

It's possible that there could be a lockout for switching specs, make it something that would discourage people from switching often.

Well I don't think that's a problem, as you could play DRK or PLD whenever you wanted after leveling them in XI and that was fine. But you gotta earn that right!

Gladiator -> Paladin Path: Damagin or Tankadin?

Well, the stigma is that PLD is no DD so that will definitely hurt damagin and make it not as popular choice just because of the stupid stigma.

What I wanted was that you have the Gladiator up till rank 30 or whatever from which point onwards you can unlock Paladin (tank spec) or continue on the Gladiator further (DD spec). It's a challenge for the devs to make it so the current classes can compete against these old classes for sure, yah... but damn, I don't think the lore for them is that bad. They just need to refine them, make the lore more obvious and it should work.

Not that we can draw any conclusions but I see two ways to go at this if we want to avoid the largest possible problems: Either make it so theres one extra branch for each class (new + classic) or make it so you need to "earn the right" to play as both specs, if they're both classic.