[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

How did Thaumaturge sudden turn into Arcanist when they are two separate magic classes? The problem that I see with this and turning dagger into Thief is there is already a great deal or lore implemented in the world revolving around Arcanist. More so that than the thieves. Which don't exist what so ever. So that will be a great deal of planning.

[OmegaNovaios]

Zan's proposal is essentially Kuro's proposal w/o a talent tree, but instead of specializing in 1 advanced class instead having the option to go into 2. It also touches on the Title Proposal of having greater penalties for cross class actions. It also introduces exclusives for these advanced classes and forces roles effectively, but ultimately it GREATLY reduces the amount of customization you can incorporate in you character instead of adding to customization which not only does Kuro's idea implement, but so does the Title System even more so. I believe Zan's proposal is the weakest of all 3.

All 3 proposal's define roles, create exclusives, limit actions in a specific way. The main differences is the customization and how things are limited and I believe the Title System is more effective in both.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...pecializations

[Kurokikaze]

Now the BIG POINT I got form this new OP that Kuro didn't include is to reduce the effect of skills (correct me if I'm wrong I haven't read every post there are too many pages). Which can be done for either idea. The example given in the Title Setup was to restrict Cure (from CON) at 100% as WHM, 75% as PLD, and 50% on any other Title. This fixes my previous problem (I think) of Curing (Lv. 20 restriction would be Cure II) from being used on every single class, or at least not as effectively perhaps even outweighing the use of it at Rank 50. Now what wouldn't change and would even make worse if implemented if DPS skills. Rank 35-50 DPS skills would by far outweigh any 1-20 Rank DPS skills and adding a penalty to this of let's say -50% there wouldn't even be a chance of using this so I think the rank restriction is flawed in this sense. Yet this does make a lot of actions exclusive. The only thing I can propose here is to have two classes to pull any action from in order to fix this and maybe even specializing in 1 advancement class for each class through a talent tree.

Of course I didn't mention that. Thats a given and doesn't need to be pointed out. No way around it.

[OmegaNovaios]

Of course I didn't mention that. Thats a given and doesn't need to be pointed out. No way around it.

But I believe the Title System can get around this.

[Kurokikaze]

No they can't. There are cross-class limitations now, they're just really weak. There is NO getting around it. In order to go forward from here they need to nerf cross-class usage more.

[OmegaNovaios]

No they can't. There are cross-class limitations now, they're just really weak. There is NO getting around it. In order to go forward from here they need to nerf cross-class usage more.

I will gladly step down from my position if you can give a logical explanation detailing the flaws in the way the setup of Title System combined with the heavy penalties to cross class actions that vary greatly from each class. I'm not trying to bash your proposal and I commend your thoughts and ideas, but I am simply trying to find the absolute best path for FFXIV. If it can become better why not allow it.

[Flower]

No they can't. There are cross-class limitations now, they're just really weak. There is NO getting around it. In order to go forward from here they need to nerf cross-class usage more.

If by cross-class limitations you mean the ability to bring spells / actions from other classes over to another I agree with you. There needs to be some level of uniqueness about the class and or its role. There needs to be a little bit of definition as well. Otherwise we run into problems like we are having now where people want to play more defined roles so they are not forced to play a style they have a bad taste for. I mean I LOVE healing, I hate when I get into a group and there are already like 1 con and 1 thm. That usually means I end up dd'ing or being bored as crap bec the other two classes can heal as well.

I wish they would do something about this issue.

[OmegaNovaios]

All these ideas/fixes will resolve this issue.

[Joe_Cool]

I've seen 3 pretty good ideas concerning the Job/Class system and I would like to make a suggestion. Instead of being at war with each other about which is best, why not combine certain aspects of all 3?

The Job/Class system could start to be like Zantetsuken's overall idea to a certain extent. FFXIV should change the spells/abilities around on the jobs so that they aren't mixed around so much. (Example: Make CON have BLM spells and THM have WHM spells). Then change the names of the classes to match previous FF titles and the ability to unlock advanced classes by ranking up a variety of other classes. I also like Zante's idea of DoH jobs having an effect on unlocking certain DoW or DoM classes.

The ability to change your class by simply changing weapons still stays. Along with being able to mix/match the abilties/spells you learn from the different classes on to the class you're currently playing as. But....it has limitations based upon Carpe's Two Tier job/class idea. Something I'd like to add is there would also be a rank/level restriction on setting spells. Meaning you can't equip Cure 3 on a rank/level 1 class. Optimal rank thats currently in the game could be the minimum level you have to be to use/equip it.

Now combine Carpe's Title/Weapon system with Kuro's Talent Tree system but instead of making Kuro's "Talent Tree" branch off, like when he gave an example of a Gladiator branching off into being a Paladin or Dark Knight where you choose abilties, etc. from the grid you choose to branch off too....don't have it branch off at all. Each player could have "Job Ability Points" that he/she acquires per Carpe's Job/Class system idea. There could be several different grids, kind of like http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.c...ighttalent.jpg , where the player chooses which abilties and such he wants to unlock based upon how he wants to play his class. Not going to be able to max out all grids but could reallocate points if you changed your mind and wanted to play that favorite job of yours a different way. EDIT: Actually, maybe it would be best to be able to max out each grid but by putting a good amount of time in acquiring "Job Points". The Grids could be called "Bow Ranger", "Gun Ranger", "Crossbow Ranger"etc. for 1 class and "Sword Dragoon", "Lance Dragoon", "Spear Dragoon" for the other. Examples of what Carpe mentioned and I added 1 to each.

I probably didn't do a very good of trying to explain where I'm coming from and to fully understand one would probably have to do a lot of reading from Kuro's, Carpe's, and Zantetsuken's job/class system.

I call it the Joe's-Zante's-Kuro's-Carpe's Job/Class System! lol

[Corrderio]

The Job/Class system could start to be like Zantetsuken's overall idea to a certain extent. FFXIV should change the spells/abilities around on the jobs so that they aren't mixed around so much. (Example: Make CON have BLM spells and THM have WHM spells). Then change the names of the classes to match previous FF titles and the ability to unlock advanced classes by ranking up a variety of other classes. I also like Zante's idea of DoH jobs having an effect on unlocking certain DoW or DoM classes.

Because the lore is already set on thos classes and redoing the lore would be more trouble than it's worth to rename current classes to fit the "classic" classes.