[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Vaymathias]

I'm hoping that the "traditional" classes are more like class mods. For instance, my Gladiator at level 40, I could change between the existing Glad mods to become a PLD, or Soldier, or DRK any time that I could change my weapon. Each one would have a few automatic traits such as Defense bonus, critical hit chance bonus, or attack bonus, and would give access to a few abilities/spells/ws's exclusive to that mod.

I hope they also make changes to existing abilities, make more of the abilities exclusive to their native class, maybe move a few around, and make WS's exclusive to their given weapon.

As an extreme, I'd also go back to a standard class change system where you change your class by picking it from a list, just allow people to change at the same times that they can change now. Limiting each weapon to a single class, is just that, limiting.

[Cairdeas]

Limiting each weapon to a single class, is just that, limiting.

Classes are Weapon Classes not Traditional MMO classes like in WoW. They are not the same as Traditional Jobs from Previous FF's either.

http://i56.tinypic.com/15h0jt1.png

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033

[Vaymathias]

Classes are Weapon Classes not Traditional MMO classes like in WoW. They are not the same as Traditional Jobs from Previous FF's either.

http://i56.tinypic.com/15h0jt1.png

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033

I get that, I'm not stupid, but there's nothing stopping the dev team from going to the extremes. It doesn't make what I said false.

[darkstarpoet1]

agreed, but we are trying to find ideas that will make the game more fun to the ones playing it and the ones that want changes. if you do change and make the base class abilities and ws's exclusive alot that enjoy the way the game is now will quit so you would fix one problem and create another. by making the advanced classes have exclusive abilities and keeping the base classes the way they are seems like a very reasonable concession between the 2 groups.

[Kurokikaze]

I don't really care much for the people playing now. They've proven that they will play regardless, considering that they've been playing this long. We need to aim our changes at whats going to attract regular MMO players and regular FF fans.

The people that have played up until now aren't going anywhere. It's just a front - don't be fooled.

[Cairdeas]

I don't really care much for the people playing now. They've proven that they will play regardless, considering that they've been playing this long. We need to aim our changes at whats going to attract regular MMO players and regular FF fans.

The people that have played up until now aren't going anywhere. It's just a front - don't be fooled.

Did you ever consider the people that are playing now are enjoying it because of the openness and the freedom the system has and thus would quit if you took all that away?

Replacing one fan base with another doesn't fix anything. It ends up upsetting both.

[darkstarpoet1]

if you remove the ability to cross class yes they will and i will be the first to go along with most of my ls. but if you want to go to that scenario i don't care what you have to say either so let's just fight instead of tryin to work together. how bout this idea since wow has massively higher a member base why not make this exactly like wow and piss off the xi fans? sounds stupid right? that's how you guys act towards the people with conflicting views and your post is evidence. some of us are not wow heads nor are we former xi members, but we got the game because it does exactly what it said it was going to do in giving freedom to make your character what you want not be limited by a job. we make our character play a role needed in a party by fixing the abilities the way we want.

[Kurokikaze]

No. What I noticed is that people like abusing a completely broken system. The fact that theres so much freedom is why we're discussing this in the first place. Besides I'm not taking away all their freedom - just the parts being exploited now.

Don't confuse freedom as being better than being given a few logical choices. Freedom is an illusion.

In FFXI you were free to choose whatever subjob you want. Now if SE told you that you could only use certain subjobs for each class:

Ranger could only sub Warrior, Samurai, and Ninja. Would that have hampered that job's ability to perform? Not in the slightest. Why? Because those were the only subjobs that were being used by that job, period. If a Ranger came to your merit party, HNM party with a Black Mage sub what would you say? Wheres your freedom of play now?

Yes, thats what I thought.

If you can honestly come up with a well thought out counter argument to this I'd LOVE to hear it.

Anyways, theres some food for thought. Back to BG for me.

[darkstarpoet1]

No. What I noticed is that people like abusing a completely broken system. The fact that theres so much freedom is why we're discussing this in the first place. Besides I'm not taking away all their freedom - just the parts being exploited now.

Don't confuse freedom as being better than being given a few logical choices. Freedom is an illusion.

In FFXI you were free to choose whatever subjob you want. Now if SE told you that you could only use certain subjobs for each class:

Ranger could only sub Warrior, Samurai, and Ninja. Would that have hampered that job's ability to perform? Not in the slightest. Why? Because those were the only subjobs that were being used by that job, period. If a Ranger came to your merit party, HNM party with a Black Mage sub what would you say? Wheres your freedom of play now?

Yes, thats what I thought.

If you can honestly come up with a well thought out counter argument to this I'd LOVE to hear it.

Anyways, theres some food for thought. Back to BG for me.

you call it freedom and i call it restricting. that's why we are trying to find a medium between both groups but one group wants to attack the other. that's why we agreed with the idea of the advanced classes with abilities that cannot be used on the base classes. the best argument you can come up with it it gets rid of traditional roles so i can't be lazy and only level one class with a second part time class and be a god. you don't want to take the time to level alot of classes so you want to attack the ones that do. some of us enjoy the freedom to choose to level a bunch of classes and have a bunch of abilities to use from each one. you want to level 2 classes and have a main with a subjob.

if you want to use that argument you fail in itself because if you want a traditional class/job/role whatever you want to call it then the subjob should not be allowed either. you would have one class with no subjob and only the abilities for that one class. then there will just be more people complaining that oh the thm is too overpowered or the arc does way too much damage.

[OmegaNovaios]

No. What I noticed is that people like abusing a completely broken system. The fact that theres so much freedom is why we're discussing this in the first place. Besides I'm not taking away all their freedom - just the parts being exploited now.

Don't confuse freedom as being better than being given a few logical choices. Freedom is an illusion.

In FFXI you were free to choose whatever subjob you want. Now if SE told you that you could only use certain subjobs for each class:

Ranger could only sub Warrior, Samurai, and Ninja. Would that have hampered that job's ability to perform? Not in the slightest. Why? Because those were the only subjobs that were being used by that job, period. If a Ranger came to your merit party, HNM party with a Black Mage sub what would you say? Wheres your freedom of play now?

Yes, thats what I thought.

If you can honestly come up with a well thought out counter argument to this I'd LOVE to hear it.

Anyways, theres some food for thought. Back to BG for me.

I really don't like this post. Many things are possible and work outside tradition and player base fixation and ideas of what a player should be. It's true that players think this way to cancel out your freedom, but things do work outside this phase and I'll give you some examples that are based upon but are effective and that probably 99% of players never thought of.

RDM/WAR as tank. This job combination requires a lot of player skill to perform effectively but I have personally done this in leveling parties. Equivalent damage taken to PLD/WAR previous to endgame gear and x2 MP pool for self curing along with bar(spell) makign it extremely effective against mob TP attacks that are elemental based and phalanx is extremely effective against very fast/weak hitting mobs. Postponed to endgame gear RDM tank is practical on magic damage dealing mobs.

RDM/NIN endgame tank is also viable. You can search this on Youtube for videos.

Tank class/BLU for super tanking. Combined with a THF or any class using SATA for boosted hate on the tank this is extremely effective for reducing damage taken beyond that of /WAR.

RDM/SCH for nuking. Combined with fast cast, convert, refresh, and B+ in nuking (/SCH allows this) makes RDM viable for DPS in this form. This setup is a viable replacement for both /blm and /whm. The only only advantage to either is elemental seal and erase at 75/37 (not including since Warp or Teleport since these aren't combat skills).

BLU/WAR for tank. In my opinion this the best possible setup for leveling as well as EG tanking especially with a genbu shield since you can stack cocoon and defender.

Now personally in FFXI I revolved around tanking/solo possibilities, but you think outside the box with a certain depth I'm sure this can be applied to other roles as well.

Not sure how well these would work out but some other ideas are:

1. BRD/COR or COR/BRD that doesn't pull. Maybe not the best for meripo but I'm sure this is effective everywhere else since it gives the job an extra buff.
2. BLU/THF for SATA enhanced damage. I have seen this before but BLU/NIN is very dominate compared to this which IMO dual wield can't compare to SATA and assuming you have a very good tank (which you should) then utsusemi is useless in parties.
3. Probably any DPS/THF for SATA + WS really.
4. DNC/NIN or NIN/DNC as tank is very effective assuming the player is skilled enough to build hate with these setups.

And I'm sure there are more setups I'm just not extremely familiar with DPS jobs.