[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Favz]

I have not played any FF game. I have played a few MMO:s before and the things that attracted my to FFIV is that it can be played with a gamepad and the atmosphere in the trailers. I only played short time but I have enjoy three things:
*) That you can swich class so fast (only to swiching weapon). This is a tremendous advantage if you like me enjoy that type of variation. That one thing that is done better in this game then in any other game.
**) Crafting are done in better way then the most other MMO I have played.
***) The game is fully adapted to gamepad so I can play in a relaxed way

I can see the good thing about specialization as long as one character can swich between any classes.

- A template feature that would allow players to swap to previously saved specs/talents/abilities/gear configurations by using 1 button would be a great addition (not just to this - but the game in general).

Would be great.

Concerning how to implement specialization. Talent tree is not the only way to go.
There exist alternative ways of making restrictions.

Restriction you can make:
# Great armor penalty.
# weakening some types of abilities.
# Remove access to some type of abilities.

In that way a advanced class would be constituted by 3 things:
- In what parts you get weaker.
- In what parts you get stronger.
- special abilities

For people that like to use the current pick every thing you like Red Mage should be the advanced class. All other classes should have limitations.
Some should be more limed then others.
Ex:
As a Blue Mage you loses the option to use any healing abilities. And gain % on damage.
As a Scholar you loses the option of using any melee or bow/throwing damage abilities. And gain % on magic damage and healing.
As a Black Mage you you loses the option of using any healing abilities and any melee or bow/throwing damage abilities. And gain % on magic damage.
And the bonus should be higher the more you "give upp". So a Black Mage should gain more % on magic damage then a Scholar.

The result would be a bit difference then using the talent tree concept.

The concept I prefer is the one that is use in D&D School Specialization. Basically you choice what to give up and you choice what to gain bonus in.

There two basic advantage over the "School Specialization" concept. It's more flexible and you don't lose the people that likes to play more the jack-of-all-trades.

The more narrow advance classes like White Mage or Black Mage easy fits into the "talent tree concept". But classes that can use both melee and all Magic ("Red Mage") or melee and all magic except healing (Blue Mage) don't fit in.

[AlexiaKidd]

I like the idea, I would prefer to just have traditional classes but the complete mish mash of current classes is going to ensure that never happens, so I guess these talent tree's are the best way forward.

[Amsai]

Amazing Suggestion! This is right in line with what I have been thinking about since that interview. And I like it a lot better than unlocking classes as in FFT. If I could rate your post up I would. Its amazing I can agree with you so much on this issue, but we don't see eye-to-eye on the "Guard" mechanic. Anyways, Great Job!

[Terabyt3]

I love this suggestion.

Way I see it would be

Gla: Dark Knight, Paladin, (maybe Thief(Dual Wield daggers))
Pug: Monk DD, Monk Tank (maybe eva tank), Dancer even
Lancer: Tp builder spec with lance, Defence spec with short lance and shield.
Mrd: no idea. maybe viking/warrior. more increase att at loss of def abils
Arc: Sharpshooter (high power single shots), Ranger Varied debuffs and maybe even a companion

Con: Healer, Blm, RDM! (simply allow em to use weapons and en spells!
Thm: Scholar, Death mage

Obviously just some off the cuff ideas but the OP certainly has a point here.

[Alpha_Zeon]

How do you get Samurai from Lancer, thats just odd.

I love this suggestion.
Lancer: Tp builder spec with lance, Defence spec with short lance and shield.

This sounds better, or, Dragoon (obviously) and I dunno Lancer Knight (w/shield)?

[Shuichi]

How do you get Samurai from Lancer, thats just odd.

Actually, Samurai were adept in the use of the nodachi as well as the spear. You could think of it in this way; the spear is a training weapon for a character until they reach Rank 20 (or whatever). Once they reach that milestone, they can then pick up a nodachi and learn the ways of the sword. Something like that you know? Attach some nice little lore onto that and voila, you have your advanced class of Samurai.

When you talk to the NPC he/she would say something like; "I see you've become pretty good with that spear, but if you want to be even better perhaps you should do my quest and I'll teach you how to use a great katana? Accept my quest?" ^_^

[Shewp]

Great idea! Each class could branch out into two or three specializations (so we can finally get beastmaster/summoner/all the other awesome ff classes)

[MagicofGaia]

Kurokikaze, you are a wonderful person. I didn't think of it this way before. Great ideas. Well thought out, well presented, and it easily fulfills most players 'wants' from this game.

I was a little scared at first when you brought up talent trees. I personally in my own mind replaced it with more of the 'merit point' system from xi to make myself feel better about it, but nevertheless.

Am I understanding by your model though, that 'unlike' ffxi, you need to specifically level one class to 30, and by doing so it unlocks a possibility of 'x' amount of further classes that are restricted to which class you have leveled 'to' rank 30. This of course being opposed to xi's style of level any class to level 30, and then you can unlock any further class in the game via quest?

[Kurokikaze]

Am I understanding by your model though, that 'unlike' ffxi, you need to specifically level one class to 30, and by doing so it unlocks a possibility of 'x' amount of further classes that are restricted to which class you have leveled 'to' rank 30. This of course being opposed to xi's style of level any class to level 30, and then you can unlock any further class in the game via quest?

Yes thats correct. Although you would not be locked into those classes. You still have the freedom to redo your talent points and spend them on a different advanced class for that base class.

Let's say your PUG was specced into a 50 MNK and you decided you wanted to play NIN instead. Assuming you have done the quest for NIN you would simply remove your talent points. When you remove all your points your stats go down to what they would be for 50 base PUG and your MNK specific traits/abilities will be unequipped. You then put those points into NIN and you can then play a 50 NIN.

It sounds weird if you're coming from FFXI only but this is standard fair for anyone thats played another MMO, namely WoW. Don't think of it as playing a different class altogether. You're taking your base class and changing your role. Your role in this case is NIN (tank).

Thanks for the kind comments all

[MagicofGaia]

Let's say your PUG was specced into a 50 MNK and you decided you wanted to play NIN instead. Assuming you have done the quest for NIN you would simply remove your talent points. When you remove all your points your stats go down to what they would be for 50 base PUG and your MNK specific traits/abilities will be unequipped. You then put those points into NIN and you can then play a 50 NIN.

Thanks for the kind comments all

(Post has been vanquished by MoG)