We come from FFXI so we're used to a grind. The carrot on that stick is too far for non-FF MMO players. As much as you guys hate it; SE will need their support to keep the game alive in the future.
We come from FFXI so we're used to a grind. The carrot on that stick is too far for non-FF MMO players. As much as you guys hate it; SE will need their support to keep the game alive in the future.
Another progression flowchart by Shuichi: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9...nchcasepal.png
Good Work! Like the idea realy much.Another progression flowchart by Shuichi: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9...nchcasepal.png
Small thing whitch i noticed in the first post:
I'm pretty shure Dark Knight wouldn't get a scythe, because botanists tools are already named so.
Personally I see a Dark Knight with a Great Sword. (Was also a favored Weapon in FFXI)
I would realy love to see that. (or any 2.Hand-Sword Class)
Yes I'm aware. Great Sword fits better since it also falls in line with Gladiator which is a Sword User.
While I commend the effort and thought you've put into your suggestion I can't agree with it as it is proposed.
I do not feel that your suggestion will give the freedom you seem to want to offer, while giving players who cannot think of their own path a linear progression.
I personally do not see a need for a class system in any RPG. This just masks that with the ability to choose what class you are after 30.
I will give you a good example of what you've described. EQ2 pre-combat and career changes.
You chose a warrior, who at level 10 could choose a subtype who then at 20? could choose a specialized role. Quite frankly it was overly complex when the exact same choice could have been made at level one, so why not go that far with the suggestion?
Why should I have to play 30 levels of a subclass I don't want to really play just to unlock the class I do want to play(I am not in favor of this either, it is just an example)?
I must prefer a classless system where the player can choose the role they which to fulfill by choosing from a selection of skills to level up. Now, I do know this is not how it is now - it is the direction I would like it to go.
Well, I wish you luck in polishing your idea so that it may sway a player's opinion such as my own. Take care!
-Have Fun
I wish people would explain why they feel a certain way and give examples. Please tell me how this would not promote freedom for players.While I commend the effort and thought you've put into your suggestion I can't agree with it as it is proposed.
I do not feel that your suggestion will give the freedom you seem to want to offer, while giving players who cannot think of their own path a linear progression.
I personally do not see a need for a class system in any RPG. This just masks that with the ability to choose what class you are after 30.
I will give you a good example of what you've described. EQ2 pre-combat and career changes.
You chose a warrior, who at level 10 could choose a subtype who then at 20? could choose a specialized role. Quite frankly it was overly complex when the exact same choice could have been made at level one, so why not go that far with the suggestion?
Why should I have to play 30 levels of a subclass I don't want to really play just to unlock the class I do want to play(I am not in favor of this either, it is just an example)?
I must prefer a classless system where the player can choose the role they which to fulfill by choosing from a selection of skills to level up. Now, I do know this is not how it is now - it is the direction I would like it to go.
Well, I wish you luck in polishing your idea so that it may sway a player's opinion such as my own. Take care!
-Have Fun
Rank 30 was used as an example in the OP and I even stated that thats what it was. We've decided that the rank 15-20 point would be best. Also you wouldn't be playing 30 levels of a subclass because the current classes evolve into the Advanced classes through natural progression. Think of it like reaching that point where you changed your appearance in Legend of Dragoon something of that nature.
And if this system is like anything... it's clearly WoW.
In my opinion, you still are playing the class you like from level 1. I mean, with the Gladiator/Paladin example, you'll still be tanking as a low level Gladiator if you would like up until you actually choose to specialize as Paladin. It is just all of the very specific and powerful class skills, such as the high level paladin cures, are reserved for a paladin only. This is to give that specific class an identity and a use once you reach that point.
Someone aiming to be a Dark Knight would have the choice of equipping more damage based abilities at low levels rather than defense based. This option is still available to Gladiator in this system, because of the cross-class abilities at the lower levels.
The level requirement for advanced jobs is also good because it helps determine which job abilities will be strictly for that specific class, and which will be usable on other classes.
Let's see if I get it. Again, I am obtuse at times. Please take no offense at my ignorance.
So Gladiator (Sword User) can at a certain Swordsmanship rank (say Rank 25) have the option to complete a quest that makes a specific job tree available. Paladin, Dark Knight, Samurai, Soldier, and/or Thief comes to mind.
The same character also has Marauder and Pugilist at Rank 25, and therefore have the option to complete quests that make the job trees for Dark Knight, Thief, Monk, and Soldier available as well.
So the character can be a Thief (i.e. use abilities from the Thief Job Tree) whether wielding an ax, knuckles, or sword. If the character decides to start ranking up Thaumaturge at 1, he will not have access to any of the abilities of the Thief Job Tree while wielding either a wand or radical (conjurer weapons), even if he gets Conjurer to Rank 25, because Thief is not an available job tree to Conjurers.
As I type this out I think I'm remembering why I do not like specialization trees. But let me reserve judgment until you have a chance to respond. Like I said before, I can be mistaken.
Last edited by Sorel; 03-11-2011 at 07:54 AM.
First off, under my proposal certain Advanced Classes will be made possible from a particular Base Class. You would not have Thief/Dark Knight appearing for Pugilist and Gladiator (one or the other) otherwise its both unfair and unbalanced. When I put that in the OP I said those were examples of where they could be based on Dagger falling under Sword in FFXIV.Let's see if I get it. Again, I am obtuse at times. Please take no offense at my ignorance.
So Gladiator (Sword User) can at a certain Swordsmanship rank (say Rank 25) have the option to complete a quest that makes a specific job tree available. Paladin, Dark Knight, Samurai, Soldier, and/or Thief comes to mind.
The same character also has Marauder and Pugilist at Rank 25, and there for have the option to complete quests that make the job trees for Dark Knight, Thief, Monk, and Soldier available as well.
So the character can be a Thief (i.e. use abilities from the Thief Job Tree) whether wielding an ax, knuckles, or sword. If the character decides to start ranking up Thaumaturge at 1, he will not have access to any of the abilities of the Thief Job Tree while wielding either a wand or radical (conjurer weapons), even if he gets Conjurer to Rank 25, because Thief is not an available job tree to Conjurers.
As I type this out I think I'm remembering why I do not like specialization trees. But let me reserve judgment until you have a chance to respond. Like I said before, I can be mistaken.
If they used this and Pugilist turns into a Thief/Monk/Ninja then if you want to level a Thief you will have to start as a Pugilist.
If that player starts playing Thaumaturge they will not have access to the Thief specs unless they switch back to Gladiator.
I think you're confusing yourself with the FFT unlocks that were suggested. I'd personally rather not have them but players seem to want it and it works with the system so whatever.
I might be. If so I apologize. I'm trying to learn your system so that I do not prejudge or leap to false conclusions (e.g. this is too restrictive). I may eventually come to that conclusion, but I don't want to before I completely understand what you are proposing.First off, under my proposal certain Advanced Classes will be made possible from a particular Base Class. You would not have Thief/Dark Knight appearing for Pugilist and Gladiator (one or the other) otherwise its both unfair and unbalanced. When I put that in the OP I said those were examples of where they could be based on Dagger falling under Sword in FFXIV.
If they used this and Pugilist turns into a Thief/Monk/Ninja then if you want to level a Thief you will have to start as a Pugilist.
If that player starts playing Thaumaturge they will not have access to the Thief specs unless they switch back to Gladiator.
I think you're confusing yourself with the FFT unlocks that were suggested. I'd personally rather not have them but players seem to want it and it works with the system so whatever.
If I understand what you just stated, the only way for a character to gain access to the Monk Job Tree is to rank Hand-to-Hand up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Dark Knight Job Tree is to rank Swordsmanship up. The only way for a character to gain access to the Berserker Job Tree is to rank Axemanship.
In order to have a Berserker that uses a sword, or a Dark Knight that uses an axe, or a Monk that uses a staff, we would need to have those Job Trees have traits like "Equip Sword", "Equip Axe", and "Equip Staff" in order to bypass the Armory System rules.
Or not, and just have those particular job trees be restricted to the weapon of the underlying Armory Class. Just so that we're clear, I am certainly not recommending that. And I don't think you are either.
Have I got it so far, or am I completely off in left field here?
Last edited by Sorel; 03-11-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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