PLD theorycraft?

[Rilla]

Howdy fellow tanks!

I've been building my paladin pretty much like this so far:
VIT>STR>ACC(till cap)>PARRY>DET>CRIT>SS

after searching for a while, I was able to find quite bit theorycrafting about war vs pld and alot of stuff about warriors, however I wasn't able to find what I was looking for.

I'd like to know if it's wise to go for parry as much as you can, or just get certain value? Any links for PLD theorycraft (2.38) would be much appriciated



-Rilla

[Cadwgan]

Cut parry out entirely, they total mitigation it offers is so pathetically low it's essentially worthless (that is until we can stack stupidly high numbers of it).

[Rbstr]

In terms of damage dealt and heals need the War and Paly are basically the same before you think about the other stuff. So much of the War gearing stuff applies to Paladins as well. Specifically that parry sucks so take det and crit where you can and that at some point more HP isn't worth much and more strength is worth quite a lot. Though the additional strength isn't quite as powerful on paly since they lack unchained and the damage-penalty ignoring inner beast.

I'd argue that palys get even less from parry than wars do since they can block.

[Judge_Xero]

When Melded i70 Accessories was a thing, it worked amazing on PLD.

Because you could also get a bunch of the DEX stat and DEX increases both Parry and Block, which Paladin has access to, VS just Parry on Warrior.

As far as theory crafting for PLD, where Warrior can use Ruby accessories melded with VIT, on PLD you would use Iolite (DEX) melded with VIT.

I'm really hoping we get an accessory set like the Gryphoskin/Rosegold i70 - which had two primary stats (Maybe i110 Crafted?) - because then you can have STR,DEX, and meld the VIT.

[Rbstr]

Dex is sooooo bad. Worse increase in parry than parry points are.

But i90 crafted strength accessories are great. Get ruby and meld in vit, accuracy and det.
If you buy iolite you're dumb...there just isn't much else to say.

[Cadwgan]

As far as theory crafting for PLD, where Warrior can use Ruby accessories melded with VIT, on PLD you would use Iolite (DEX) melded with VIT.

I'm really hoping we get an accessory set like the Gryphoskin/Rosegold i70 - which had two primary stats (Maybe i110 Crafted?) - because then you can have STR,DEX, and meld the VIT.

No, you'd use ruby w/VIT still as PLD, no tank ever considered gryphonskin for the DEX on it, even when they melded it with parrying and accuracy.

[Rilla]

This is not what I had in mind. I'm looking for more solid evidence if parry isn't the way to go. I'd like you to back up your arguments with some parsers if possible. Also, why would parry be useless stat? It's migitation after all..

[dramamine]

This is not what I had in mind. I'm looking for more solid evidence if parry isn't the way to go. I'd like you to back up your arguments with some parsers if possible. Also, why would parry be useless stat? It's migitation after all..

I think people exaggerate how much of a DPS increase crit/det are versus how much of a mitigation increase Parry is. The only benefit to stacking crit/det is that you know they are always going to be useful since you're always going to be doing damage, while parry only protects you from physical attacks. It's still just a question of whether you'd rather add a percentage point or two to your DPS, or a percentage point or two to your physical mitigation per second. From a pure tanking perspective, parry's probably the best choice since it's the only secondary stat that increases mitigation, but sort of like accuracy has a cap, there's a point where extra mitigation doesn't really make a substantial difference. It's just that with accuracy, it's a hard cap, while with mitigation, it depends a lot on how well your party knows the content you're playing.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Parry is not a worthwhile stat when "average mitigation" doesn't matter because "avarage damage taken" doesn't matter, base parry rate is already sufficient, and needing so much parry to give any return makes it not worth investing in.

As a tank, the only things that ever threaten your HP total are huge attacks like Mountain Buster, Death Sentence, Ravensbeak etc or a bunch of attacks from multiple enemies intended to be tanked separately (T7 Melusine+adds, T8 Avatar+Dread, T9 Boss+Ghost) or a big dungeon pull.

For these situations you never rely on your random mitigation (block or parry). You always pop an important cooldown like Rampart or Sentinel (or Inner Beast as WAR with some other cooldown additionally). Your healers cannot "underheal" in anticipation of a block or parry because you will die. Therefore when you parry or block you usually cause overhealing anyways. If you die from such a big hit due to not parrying or blocking it and you popped cooldowns, that's a fundamental problem that you and your healers must fix somehow by mitigating it better. Parry won't fix it.

Falling into the pitfall of "it's a mitigation stat, I'm a tank" is short-sighted.

[Rbstr]

The main thing is a logical agrument: The real threats to tank survival in coil/endgame come from spike damage attacks. Most of the rest of tank damage is pretty trivial to heal and requires no mitigation. So while parry may reduce the total damage you take in an encounter it can't be what saves you from a spike attack or you're simply relying on luck to survive. Luck that happens at less than a 30% rate - so clears don't happen when you rely on it. It does not increase effective HP, it is purely an incidental bonus no one can count on.

I'm not against parry completely - adding strength is way more useful than changing a parry item to a det item (At the end of the day 150 parry is like 3% total average damage reduction. 150 det on a tank isn't going to up total party DPS by that much...but it will make for a large increase in your enmity!). If you wanted to meld Topaz with strength that'd arguably be better than ruby with vit, since Palys can get into TP trouble.
I suppose if you wanted dex for some reason you could do i90 accs with dex.vit.str. But a point of parry gives you more parry rate than dex does...and it does nothing to help DPS like determination would.