Because apparently, counting in increments of two is too damn hard...

[Evaddaragon]

This is nothing more than a rant, honestly, but I suppose that if it starts a debate, might as well.


So I get into this so-called Ramuh Ex "farming party". That's all fine and dandy, I've killed the thing a few times but the tank ring never dropped and I want another shot at it. Last spot was for tank, so I grab it.

First run goes, wipe. DPS can't be bothered to pick up orbs.


Then the magic starts. Someone invites people to join on his TS server, but does NOT state it's mandatory, nor even asks ME if I'm going to join on TS. AT ALL. He simply states "come on TS to help with chaos strike", which, last I recall, was usually not the tanks' job to handle, but it's not like anyone discussed THAT before starting in the first place.

Since it's past 11 PM EST and I have people sleeping home, I choose not to join on TS. It's not like I'm being told it's mandatory or anything after all.


Then after four more wipes (all of them for the same reason than the first one, by the way), they go and say : "Well the tank is supposed to tell us when we have to pick orbs." TS host said : "Well the PLD isn't on TS." So they get out of the instance, blame me for their wipes (because apparently, the sole reason we're wiping is because I'm not on TS) then kick me without even listening to my reply, which was : "You never asked me if I could get on TS in the first place."


There's three things I want to address here :

1- Orb picking with Ramuh Ex takes place every SECOND orb group. That's an increment of TWO. TWO. You're telling me you actually can't figure that out by yourself without someone telling you ?

2- There is NO WRITTEN OR OFFICIAL rule whatsoever that says the tank has to tell you when to pick up the orbs. So if you don't ask him to be in charge of that at the beginning, don't blame the tank for YOUR slacking off.

3- VoIP is helpful, but NEVER essential. It's like a crutch, it helps you walking, but if you absolutely need it to walk, then you're still wounded. Get it ?

Feel free to disagree if you want. I at least got it out my chest, and just for that, I'm thankful.

[ElHeggunte]

3- VoIP is helpful, but NEVER essential. It's like a crutch, it helps you walking, but if you absolutely need it to walk, then you're still wounded. Get it ?

I would say that no, it isn't necessary if you're all really familiar with the content and familiar enough with each other that you can know and expect how your teammates will react to any given situation. In groups with strangers or people who are unfamiliar with the content, voice programs can help save wipes because you can call out changes or give directions on the fly without having to stop and type it out (and then hope the person or persons you're addressing even read it). It isn't a crutch so much as it's making up for unfamiliarity. Actually that is a crutch, but I digress, you know what I mean.

With that being said, that group sounds like a bunch of jackasses anyway so being kicked doesn't sound like much of a loss.

[Evaddaragon]

With that being said, that group sounds like a bunch of jackasses anyway so being kicked doesn't sound like much of a loss.

It certainly isn't. I mean, I'll get that ring eventually. It's just that, you know, sometimes it seems so apparent to you that you're like : "Man, am I actually missing something ?"

And I wouldn't say jackasses. They didn't call me names or yelled at me or anything like that. They still were kinda respectful. So I'd say more of being "wrong" than being "jackasses".

[Sholah]

You really could have just made a macro like most tanks. It's really simple. Tanks have very little to do in that fight and you could've saved everyone a lot of trouble.

[Evaddaragon]

While I agree that making a macro is simple, I wasn't asked to. I suppose you missed my point no.2 ? "Saving trouble" ? Counting in increments of TWO is TROUBLE ? If you say so.

Tanks have "very little to do" ? We both have all classes at 50 and I'll guess we both have basic knowledge of them at the least. You're basically telling me it's harder as DPS ? I simply do not agree with you. I didn't need to be told every second thunderstorm when I attempted this fight as DRG.


EDIT : By the way, what I said about VoIP applies EXACTLY on macros as well.

EDIT 2 : I actually forgot to mention something. I wasn't doing the 1-tank method. There also was a WAR present, he could get on TS but could not talk. Care to explain to me why I'M the one who gets blamed when he could have done the same thing ? I mean, the WAR could definitely also make a macro if I follow the reasoning. Yet I wouldn't even blame him for our wipes. The wipes were caused to non-picking of the orbs, and nothing else. Tanks weren't at cause here.

[maxthunder1]

You really could have just made a macro like most tanks. It's really simple. Tanks have very little to do in that fight and you could've saved everyone a lot of trouble.

I disagree with your statement. You see you dont need a marco to do any of this, what you need is a party to pay attention to what is going on. If dps tanks or healers cant pay attention that is an issue that needs to be addressed and the only players who can address that issue are the one's who cant or refuse to pay attention. I understand it needs teamwork but again if some one isnt paying attention for whatever reason teamwork starts with everyone not just a tank or a healer or a dps. No one person should be responsible for everyone else because they CANT be bothered to pay attention. Yes a macro might have helped but we wasnt in that group so we cant say for sure it would have.

In my experience with other players during fights is those that are having issue's either dont know the fight or they know the fight and are watching T.V. or they are doing something other than paying attention to whats going on. Remeber every fight is scripted so there is no reason what so ever for things like this to happen. Team work needs to be from everyone and players need to be responsible enough to pay attention to whats going on around them, regardless who has the harder job or not.

[ruskie]

I agree with OP on this frankly. The problem is that DPS can zone out into their zone same as healers so a reminder with macro can wake them up. The problem is when there is one or more people spaming macros and even better when there are conflicting instructions... Owww the fun we had...

My main issue with ram ex tends to be that people will run after me with thunderstorm or overlap me while struck. Though the biggest issue of them all is the DPS check and the DPS that stand in the water during thunderstorm(during that phase).

[SarcasmMisser]

DPS not being aware of the orb feeding pattern is frankly lazy and tunnel vision as all heck, it happens a lot and just because the tank swapping pattern isn't their mechanic to deal with doesn't mean they can zone out and not be aware of it. I hate the attitude to fights where people only learn what their particular job is and try to heap the responsibility of awareness on others.

It's really simple post-adds. Is someone cleansing the rolling thunder tether? Then the tanks aren't swapping, clear remaining orbs after the tether. Is there no rolling thunder? Then it's a swap clear the orbs after the tanks have swapped. Once you're in the pattern it's on auto-pilot, the only communication being necessary when there are phase changes and the tanks might have to swap early to get back into the pattern.

Hell people should be fighting each other to clear the orbs since surge protection makes you immune to rolling thunder, which is a pain to get if you are a healer or DPS. But no everyone just stands around and tries to redirect responsibility.

You really could have just made a macro like most tanks. It's really simple. Tanks have very little to do in that fight and you could've saved everyone a lot of trouble.

I play both tank and DPS and there is no excuse for not being aware of the feeding, it's not hard there is never anything happening for DPS at the moments you are feeding. Lazy and bad DPS try to heap responsibility for awareness on tanks, it's not hard.

[PArcher]

1- Orb picking with Ramuh Ex takes place every SECOND orb group. That's an increment of TWO. TWO. You're telling me you actually can't figure that out by yourself without someone telling you ?

2- There is NO WRITTEN OR OFFICIAL rule whatsoever that says the tank has to tell you when to pick up the orbs. So if you don't ask him to be in charge of that at the beginning, don't blame the tank for YOUR slacking off.

3- VoIP is helpful, but NEVER essential. It's like a crutch, it helps you walking, but if you absolutely need it to walk, then you're still wounded. Get it ?

1) Not necessarily. There are situations where there are two clear phases, or even no clear phases (in really weird phase pushes) in a row. And sometimes the tanks have to make snap decisions whether to gather or clear (and overcharge), especially around phase changes or when Rolling Thunder is out.

2) There may be no written rule...but since those orbs are what keeps the tanks safe having a tank let the rest know its OK to clear after they're buffed is a VERY good idea.

3) Lol. Yes, you can do any fight with no voice. But doing so, especially in fights that require a lot of communication, is generally a bad thing. If you have the option for voice, even just listening in is better than assuming you're too good for it

For the record, I've mostly tanked Ramuh EX (prob 20-30 or more kills) and have also DPSed it several times. Tanking is FAR easier than DPSing this fight, since you spend half the fight doing very little, and after getting orbs and taking hate...you still don't do much. Its not a very tanking-intensive fight at all (heck, I rarely use CDs until Rolling Thunder goes out or something goes wrong, and one of my healers is DPSing a lot before then too, or standing doing nothing). DPS have to share half the land with 6 others and make sure to not trip over a stray orb during a gather phase, break (or avoid) the Chaosed people, don't overlap the AoEs, watch for Rolling in phase 3...and know what the tanks are up to

Should DPS be paying attention to the tanks? Yes. But...to say they need to know exactly what the tanks are doing without being told is just dumb. Heck, there's times where I will make the decision to overcharge and yell at the other tank to save the orbs for Rolling or just call for a clear (usually when the system gets screwy if the phase change is off, or a tank died or accidentally overcharged earlier)


Ideally, the clear/gather will always be like that. It rarely happens that way, so having good communication is what saves the fight.

[Edli]

Tanks have a easier job, they don't have to deal with chaotic strikes and maintaining their combos up during adds. DPS will eventually lose track of orb's order especially when adds come up, that is not where they're focused at but tanks haver each other on focus target and know when is the time to pick up.

Using a macro wouldn't kill you, is just a button to press.