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  1. #41
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by LunarEmerald View Post
    Tanks do the least and have the easiest job in the fight. If a tank doesn't bother to communicate for when to do clean up then I'm gonna call them bad/lazy.
    Same could be said for the dps or healers. If in fact this was a farm party and they all knew the fight than they shouldnt need some one to call something out. Regardless of job or responsibilities each player should have known what to expect and have acted accordingly. Bottom line all 8 players need to pay attention to whats going on.
    (2)

  2. #42
    Player Kaze3434's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Old Grid
    Posts
    1,016
    Character
    Rumina Asou
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandeu View Post
    I understand the TS part. What irks me is this person expects the party to do everything for him because tanks don't normally do a lot of stuff in Ramuh. His response is just ridiculous, "they didn't ask me to make a macro, call out orbs, whatever."
    You're lucky to have a good party but you gotta understand that not all parties can be as good as the other.
    I have been lucky with parties. tho that is mainly due to joining farm parties of people i know to be good. i have also been unlucky with parties. using both TS and macros, while i was playing as dps, orbs were being left on the field and me(with 2 debuff stacks) trying to get others to start picking orbs up. tho at this point, its tunnel vision.
    (0)

  3. #43
    Player
    Evaddaragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    310
    Character
    Evad D'aragon
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandeu View Post
    OP, you suck.
    I asked for a debate, not insults. Thanks in advance. And NO, it was NOT necessary.


    I'm letting things go, but yeah, as I said, this looks a lot like the debate over whether or not to mark targets and either if it's the tank or the other players' responsibility.


    All in all, though, just by looking at the number of posts that agree with me plus the likes I've gotten, I know the majority of people think like me.

    That being said, people are right to say that communication is everyone's affair. What I'm disagreeing on is the amount of effort I should have done to "improve things" as they say. They are suggesting I should have KNOWN. Sorry guys, that's not how it works. I am not a mind reader and I never will be.

    It's at least interesting to hear all sides of the story. Like I said, I'm interested in debating, but not in name calling.
    (0)

  4. #44
    Player Tiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,645
    Character
    Tiggy Te'al
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 53
    If the group is wiping and there is something you can do to improve it then you should it. Whether it's call outs or something else entirely. Expecting to be told to do so before doing it is lazy. A complete lack of initiative.
    (6)

  5. #45
    Player Eidolon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,373
    Character
    Muhau Nbolo
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    There are two tanks in Farm Parties:

    The ones who have macros
    and
    The ones who don't have macros.

    I've noticed that when I tank farm parties, and I use my macro's (because no one else was doing it), we tend to clear easier.

    When I try to go as DPS or Healer, and the tanks don't have macro's / don't use macro's / "It's the tanks responsibility!" (derp): It tends to be a wipe fest.
    (2)

  6. #46
    Player
    Evaddaragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    310
    Character
    Evad D'aragon
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 88
    Tiggy, you don't get it. You're asking people to guess it and if they don't they're lazy.

    You are saying I EXPECT to be told so. I simply stated I was not told so. You are ASSUMING I'm expecting things. I'm saying I should not be expecting anything. This is labeled as a farming party. The only expectations you would be doing is that people know what to do, because they labeled themselves as such.


    And people who said to lower your expectations on a PUG : Basically, you're suggesting that if I go to a drug store, and there are no Aspirin or the equivalent, then I should have known and get the "initiative" to go somewhere else. I don't think that makes sense.

    The tank's job is to hold hate and swap. That much everyone agrees on. Not everyone agrees it's the tank's responsibility to call out orbs. So if was not told to do it, NO, I should have not expected anything, and that doesn't make me lazy, Tiggy.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    Edli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Edli Papami
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrhn View Post
    I still don't understand why the tanks need to call out what the dps/healers have to do.
    Because the orbs are there for the tank. Because tanks have each other on focus target and know when they need the orbs and when they don't. That's the whole point of the orbs, it's the swap mechanic for the tanks. It's a nobrainer that tank should be the one calling. The tank basically says, I don't need anymore pick up the rest.

    Plus that is what tanks do the entire fight, they can't bother even with that?
    (3)

  8. #48
    Player
    Myrhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,010
    Character
    Myrhn Shirayuki
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Edli View Post
    Because the orbs are there for the tank. Because tanks have each other on focus target and know when they need the orbs and when they don't. That's the whole point of the orbs, it's the swap mechanic for the tanks. It's a nobrainer that tank should be the one calling. The tank basically says, I don't need anymore pick up the rest.

    Plus that is what tanks do the entire fight, they can't bother even with that?
    You can put one of the tanks on focustarget too. When I do it with friends no one call anything and if someone is calling them out is the BRD. The BRD that is baiting and do it the same as all the other dps. If he can do it just fine i would assume that everyone else can do it.
    (0)
    I love the official forums, they tell you to use the search for thread about what you wanted to talk but when you use it they judge for necro a thread.


  9. #49
    Player
    Edli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Edli Papami
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddaragon View Post
    . This is labeled as a farming party.
    The party wiped several times. It doesn't take a genius to see that was not a farming party so why didn't you leave?
    The party wiped over and over again because as you said they didnt know when to pick up orbs. So either leave or lower your standards and help out. It should have been obvious to you they needed help with orbs after the first wipe.
    (2)

  10. #50
    Player Tiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,645
    Character
    Tiggy Te'al
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddaragon View Post
    Tiggy, you don't get it. You're asking people to guess it and if they don't they're lazy.
    You are saying I EXPECT to be told so. I simply stated I was not told so
    Are you even reading what I'm saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Expecting to be told to do so before doing it is lazy. A complete lack of initiative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
    Take some personal responsibility. You knew some groups ask for this and you still didn't do it. Do you have to be explicitly asked to do cool downs for big hits or do you do it automatically because it's your job? On some fights call outs ARE your job and you shouldn't need to be explicitly asked to do it. This is one of them. .
    I'm saying you should just do it. Always. Without being asked or without wondering if they want you to or not. It's like you aren't reading what I'm saying at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddaragon View Post
    And people who said to lower your expectations on a PUG : Basically, you're suggesting that if I go to a drug store, and there are no Aspirin or the equivalent, then I should have known and get the "initiative" to go somewhere else. I don't think that makes sense.
    Terrible anology so I won't even touch this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddaragon View Post
    The tank's job is to hold hate and swap. That much everyone agrees on. Not everyone agrees it's the tank's responsibility to call out orbs. So if was not told to do it, NO, I should have not expected anything, and that doesn't make me lazy, Tiggy.
    Even if I didn't think this was a primary tank task (which I do) the fact remains that many observations show that calling out improves the consistency of fights. Something Eidolon above commented on as well. You saw the group was doing poorly and didn't do ANYTHING to improve it. Despite the fact simple callouts from you would improve it. You should never need to be told these things. You are an intelligent human being with a brain that can think things through. You shouldn't need to be told these things before you do it. You know it's a task tanks frequently do and you didn't even try.

    Lastly, you seem to think the DPS should be able to handle this. Sure, great ones can, but lets be real. They are handling far more mechanics than you are. You grab three orbs and sit there. You do barely anything even when you aren't currently the main tank. Acting like it's easy on DPS to watch the status of the tanks when they are trying not to kill each other when you're barely doing anything screams of laziness and a gigantic lack of critical thinking and personal responsibility. It also shows you have no flexibility when things do go wrong since you assume everyone should just react in a predisposed way which will lead possible wins right into wipes. Sometimes orbs get messed up and overcharges have to happen, or in phase 3 you have to do something just right so tethers and the tank are covered. If you never practice callouts you won't be ready to call those contingencies and that will lead to wipes.

    I'll leave it at this. You could have improved that groups chances, but you didn't. That's on no one but you. Stop making excuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edli View Post
    The party wiped several times. It doesn't take a genius to see that was not a farming party so why didn't you leave?
    The party wiped over and over again because as you said they didnt know when to pick up orbs. So either leave or lower your standards and help out. It should have been obvious to you they needed help with orbs after the first wipe.
    This guy nails it.
    (5)
    Last edited by Tiggy; 10-09-2014 at 01:05 AM.

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