Simple Solution to BLU

[Toodles]

I really don't like the idea of more than one soul crystal per job.

Why... it's essentially identical to SCH/SMN just without the name change. Also it's the only plausible/realistic idea I've heard among all of them except perhaps just making it a single job/single role (not as fun).

[LineageRazor]

Basically, the resistance you're seeing to the idea is because your thread claims to solve a problem that no one but a small handful of FFXI BLU fans ever thought was a problem in the first place: Keeping BLU as a job that can fulfill multiple roles. Your solution is novel in that it forces a BLU to be only one role at a time, but it is still a solution provided for a problem that doesn't even really exist.

BLU as multi-role is not core to the job, and never has been. FFXI came closest, but even there it was shoehorned into DPS role for party events. Prior to FFXI, while BLU had both offensive and defensive abilities, so did ALL mage jobs; WHM, BLM, GEO, TIM, SMN - all of them had both offensive and defensive abilities. BLU was not special in that regard, and just as those jobs have been forced into single roles in this game (well, not TIM or GEO - yet), so too should BLU. There is no need for a special exception.

The only problem that needs solving are the things that are preventing Yoshi P from adding it to the game. How do we prevent BLU's from being rejected from parties for not having all the right spells learned, for example. Read the developer's blurb where they talk about why adding BLU is problematic, and solve THOSE problems. Don't throw new problems into the mix, solve those, and then call it a day!

[Toodles]

^this does solve THOSE problems... his responses regarding BLU are why I suggested this.

Sorry, you're telling me my solution is for a non-existent problem then point out an existent problem this suggestion applies to.

Designing BLU in such a way:

a) relegates it to separated roles

b) giving it access to a multitude of BLU spells

c) & causing it to fit into the ARR framework as necessary


Q: I love the blue mage job that appears in the FINAL FANTASY series. Will the blue mage job ever be implemented in FFXIV?

A: I think that blue mage is an interesting job because you can learn spells enemies, but honestly I don't think that it really fits MMORPG party settings. If anything, I think it would work solo and it would be really fun to implement it as a job where you go around and learn abilities from every monster, so I'd definitely like to try and do this, but I'm concerned when it comes to playing in a party players would put up barriers if you haven't learned certain abilities. Additionally, in the event you are able to use abilities forever once you learn them, the difficulty of learning abilities would be high, and we wouldn't be able to balance the system so it wouldn't revolve around procuring your abilities instead of equipment. This wouldn't be practical enough to fit in an MMORPG party setting and conversely if you are swapping in only certain abilities you've learned, the true image of a blue mage would diminish, so this is something that I am concerned with.

[ShiloEET]

It is a DPS at it's core with backup support and off-heals. The structure of FFXIV would need it to be more focused. Make it a DPS, have its learned abilities primarily a mix of melee physical abilities and ranged spells. Then give it a few heal/support skills. That is hybrid enough without conflicting with FFXIV's structure. It doesn't need to be able to tank and heal just because it is a Blue Mage.

I think that multiple Soul Crystals to allow for varying versions of Blue Mage is excessive and un-necessary. I would rather have a single Blue Mage with unique abilities that allow it to stand on its own without needing to try and fill every role "just because" it's a BLU.

This is true. Paladin can heal, but he is not quite a healer. Perhaps this is possible with BLU.

[Toodles]

I mean BLU could be just a dps but SE is definitely unwilling to give many more abilities than other classes or a new monster-spell learning system (groups won't take you unless you have all of them or will be inclined to parse you).

[Laerune]

Instead of more soul crystals, why not add stances to the job?

They could fix the class skills like this, if you use (BS skill) Heartbreaker as a BLU dps, the skill does %dmg, if you do it in a BLU tank stance, the skill gives instead of dps a defensive buff and enemity, for healers it could instead of dmg you get more healing etc.

[ShiloEET]

I mean BLU could be just a dps but SE is definitely unwilling to give many more abilities than other classes or a new monster-spell learning system (groups won't take you unless you have all of them or will be inclined to parse you).

What if their ability to use enemy abilities was simply like a glamour? So they are casing an enemy skill. However the skill is simply a glamour over a skill. So the ability is something like [Attack 1] - [Attack 2], but they can use spellsteal to make [attack 2] look like an enemies ability. However it is still the same attack.

edit: I think stealing spells could also cause a spirit to come out and attack with the form of the spirit.

[LineageRazor]

Sorry, you're telling me my solution is for a non-existent problem then point out an existent problem this suggestion applies to.

Designing BLU in such a way:

a) relegates it to separated roles

b) giving it access to a multitude of BLU spells

c) & causing it to fit into the ARR framework as necessary

You've put his quote right there in your response. I've read it over several times now, and nowhere do I see the dev concerned about ANY of those three issues.

a) Nowhere does the dev mention any concern about whether a BLU is DPS, healer, tank, or any combination of those. Splitting the job into three job roles does not address any of the dev's concerns here - and really, splitting a BLU into multiple roles is the major thrust of this thread. It is PLAYERS that have their undies in a twist about what role BLU will fill, not the dev.

b) The dev is comfortable with giving BLU a multitude of spells.

c) The dev does not seem concerned with the ARR framework, or, at least, does not address it here.

THESE are the problems the dev has, as I see it:

1) Players will ostracize players who have not obtained certain spells. I see this as a non-issue, no different than parties ostracizing a WAR who hasn't leveled GLD for Provoke. A responsible BLU will learn their spells. Doing so may even be required to advance through class and job quests.

2) Since spells are learned forever, they will be hard to learn, and that will take significant time away from acquiring gear. This is only an issue if they MAKE it an issue; there's no reason BLU spells need to be hard to learn. FFXI was the first game to add a "chance to learn" mechanic to BLU, and it sucked big time. I will not be sad to see it go.

3) Swapping in spells and only being able to use some of the abilities you've learned at any given time isn't true to the spirit of BLU. Again, only an issue if they make it an issue. Keep the BLU spell list small, and make all the spells accessible at all times. There's no reason a BLU needs to learn a spell from every mob in the game - again, that's FFXI talking. While it is true that BLU has classically had a large list of spells, so too has SMN classically had a large list of Summons. Now SMN has three. THREE. Possibly eventually as many as six, but likely never more than that. By comparison, reducing BLU's list of spells to a dozen or less is hardly an issue. (Note, too, that this thread not only fails to address this issue, but provides a POWERFUL example of it - by switching to Tank BLU, you're becoming unable to use any of your Healer or DPS spells!)

To sum up, the dev here seems as obsessed with the FFXI version of BLU as many of the people posting here are. The dev needs to understand that BLU doesn't need to have a huge spell list or awkward mechanics for learning spells to still be a viable Blue Mage. Neither does it need to be a solo powerhouse; it can be as dependent on party structure as any other job. Players posting in these threads need to understand that BLU doesn't need to be a versatile jack-of-all-trades to be a viable Blue Mage.

There are so many preconcieved notions about what makes a REAL BLU, notions held both by the dev and by posters. The one and ONLY trait that all BLUs share across all Final Fantasies is that they learn their abilities from enemies. Once that trait is covered, you can build your BLU however you want to - everything else is fluff.

[Toodles]

^I don't think we're reading the same dev reply

a) it doesn't explicitly mention this, it does allude to concern over ability-bloat & speak to impracticality in a party setting

b) they don't seem comfortable with it to me, they like the *idea* of it, but the implementation they're worried about, which my post handles the implementation

c) concern regarding its place in an MMO party I would say qualifies as needing the fit the ARR framework (trinity-centric)

[Asheilin]

With the London fan festival came a new "job" development. 3.0 is giving a JOB with no CLASS. This to me, gives hope of them trying to fix the class/issues without breaking what is currently made.

Blue Mage is Blue Mage (or any of its other titles across the franchise) the fundamentals of the game is what matters. as to the Q&A pertaining BLU, it does state he wants to do it. Meaning there is a good chance it will be implemented eventually...Its the how to be figure out.
As to everyone going "FFXI" made it be as many are referring to it; there is a reason for that Its an MMO utilizing the Abilities with a manageable way to handle the Ability Bloat they would naturally have.

In FFXI (according to here) has 175 spells for 99 levels and expansions (idk if that includes the most recent, that was just the page I still had that would load) ok, so lets cut that back 75 spells to cover the xpacs after its release; thats still 100 spells at level 75 (the cap it had on its start). By that, we could easily have 50-75 learnable abilities before 3.0, 75-100 before 4.0.

When I stopped playing before the last xpac launched, I could set a maximum number of 20 spells and that was only if I minimized spell costs for the 55 points I had to set spells. I think I only had 16/17 spells because I had several higher costing ones set! so including weapon skills (non grind) and the Blu specials (I'll say 5 to be safe!) I had 12 weapon skills.
So, at 99 a total of 34-38 abilities available to use at a time, and several Weapon Skills you stopped using after getting better ones.
With THAT in mind base with no cross class skills used FFXIV has 33-36 abilities and that includes their traits with a cap of 50!
still think our current system couldn't make it work?