BLM threat in low level (pre-50) dungeons??

[MirielleLavandre]

Hi all,
So, I'm working on my books for PLD (i96 atm but only have shield animus and atma sword). On HMs and such, I have no issues holding hate even when I have a few highly geared dps, but last night in DD I had a totally terrible time keeping hate from a i100 or so BLM. Now, I thought we all got our gear de-leveled to about what the max white pieces would be in the dungeon. I used my normal rotations, shield lob and flash, alternating combo on mobs, and flashing more. However, every single pull almost the BLM got hate on one of the three mobs I'd pull, or when I pulled 4-6 she'd still get hate on one.

I'm not sure how BLMs are supposed to work in these lower dungeons when down leveled , but I have no idea how or why she got hate so much. I know she was constantly AoE the pack of mobs, but I was alternating combo and even splitting combo on the pack while interspersing flash. I had shield oath on, and such. No idea what was up w/ that. All I was missing is Circle of Scorn, I believe, out of what I use @50. Any suggestions?

[LionKing]

First, does the BLM cast Fire 2 instead of Fire 1 for a bunch of mobs?
Second, what rotation did you do? Rage Halon combo or Savage-Flash Combo?

A/If the BLM does cast Fire 2 and you only use Rage-Halon combo, you will fail at holding aggro because threat is not generated fast enough.
B/If the BLM cast Fire 1 with Raging strike up, and you use Savage-Flash combo, you will lose aggro on the mob that he/she is attacking.
C/If the BLM cast fire 2 and you use Savage-Flash combo, you won't have any problem holding hate on the group.

How to fix?

A/ Use Savage-Flash combo instead of Rage-Halon combo.
B/ Use Rage-Halon combo on the one that the BLM is attacking and Flash once in while to keep hate from Healer and other DPS.

If these two are still fail, then the BLM is probably higher than just an ilv 100

[IndigoHawk]

FFXIV tanks, particularly paladins, are weak threat generators in level synced dungeons. It's not your fault.
When synced, a black mage with a good rotation can pull threat. Good single target dps can also rip off one mob but it's not as bad as losing the whole group to a blm.
Some people have never played with a good black mage and think that the tanks simply need to learn to play. Not true. Synced threat is not balanced.

When I get into that situation, I spam flash and riot blade. If I run out of mana and can no longer keep up, then I mark something and keep threat on it with combos. If the BLM is doing that much threat, then they're doing a lot of damage and things should be dying fast so as long as I can keep a little control, the fight should be ok.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thanks for the responses. I usually start off with shield lob, then flash, then Fast to Savage mob 1, flash, ROH mob 2, flash, fast/savage mob 3 when I have mostly AOE classes as dps. From what I understand, the BLM could've been ilvl 500 and it wouldn't have mattered since it is a level synched dungeon (from inspecting I guessed 100 -- even 110 shouldn't matter in Darkhold). When I saw that as I tabbed to mob 2, the BLM already had over 50% hate on it and mob 3, I started just spamming flash until I had to riot to get MP back.

I'm not sure what she was casting as I don't play BLM much -- but I do know that threat on mobs 2 and 3 was really high right after my initial savage combo when I went to mob 2 for RoH. So, I'm thinking whatever it was put dmg and threat on all 3 mobs from the get go. Thanks again for any input ^^

[Numenor1379]

It was probably Fire II spam that did it, it usually does lol. If the BLM doesn't have Quelling Strikes as one of their top two cross class skills it's possible they didn't have it available to assist with aggro control.

[LionKing]

I don't remember at that level if BLM has fire proc trait or not,if they have, there is nothing you can do if they have many procs of Fire 3 and forget to watch their aggro bar. BLM Dps much like Brds, is very vary depend on how many Fire procs they have.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thanks -- it was Darkhold, which I think synchs us down to level 46, so if you're talking about Firestarter (is that what a fire proc is?) then yep, they had it. And this BLM only has archer @ level 15, so no quelling.

[Rufalus]

BLM is the worst enemy of the Paladin trying to hold enemies. They do insane damage and enmity. You could try unloading all your MP on Flash and using potions to speed up MP recovery. You can use Fight or Flight to boost your melee hits. If you are about to lose a target that is almost dead you might just want to stun it in place to buy you some time. If you lose a target early, provoke and halone it. If you lose multiple targets, the player who took them from you should be running over to you to get them back in flash range. The top geared and skilled damage dealers are so good now that it made me think about doing a strength build on my paladin (stat allocation and accessories to boost strength at the cost of HP reduction). You can know every trick in the book and still not be perfect all the time... dps players can do their part by using enmity-reducing skills (quelling strikes for brd/blm) and switching targets if they are about to overtake the tank on the one they are focusing.

[chidarake]

I main blm..

I would say your losing the one that got hit by fire 3 first cus chances are the blm cast fire 3 then fire 2 spam. on top of this with no quelling and no holding back that fire 3 will hit real hard the moment you get in range for flash.

even in dungeons where we lose fire 3, if we don't holdback for 2 secs or so like all good dps should the tank will struggle to hold hate on that target alteast in the first few moments.


tanking and how I counter it,

because im aware of this problem when I tank, I always go in thinking that dps want to steal my toys. so basically I will shield lob flash like you then flash again and depending on party make-up once more then just pretty much rotate my combo watching for the one with the lowest hp and making sure to switch back to it mid combo if it looks like I may lose hate on it rather than going onto the next target in the list.

chances are you wont need to flash anymore unless its a big pull and lots of aoe

[Artiste]

In this game, as strange as it is, at low lvl, Paladin is harder to play then at higher lvl (it's the opposite for all other classes), I my opinion at least, you dont have to aggree with me.

The main problem, is the Shield stance, you get it too late, ans flash use too much mana for not enough aggro at this lvl (with shield stance earlier should be fine)

It's even worse when it's someone first classe, tank, on the first dj, as WHM, you're kinda sure you'll get aggro for 2 monsters on 3, and if you dont die, the tnak will think everything is alright, or i'll think it's your fault (I guess), it's really hard had low lvl, so for a new players... Too hard for him.