Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Murugan]

If you look back, I've acknowledged several times that it's not only possible, but several people have done it. My problem was with the other poster saying that any idiot could do it, without having ever done it herself.

I get so sick of the insulting tone of so many posts on these boards. People's immediate reflex seems to be to just to insult everyone else, without regard to what's appropriate or even true.

Thanks. That's a great example of exactly what I'm talking about.

In fact, if you look at my prior posts, you'll see that I'm not being lazy, I'm not blaming good encounter mechanics, and I've tried coming up with solutions. You'll also see that I'm loving the dungeons, loving the game, and don't want the mechanics changed.

But hey, you might get socially ostracized if every post doesn't call someone else stupid or lazy. So by all means, carry on.

You don't find it ironic that this is the post I was responding to, on this page.

And you know any idiot can do it from experience? I mean, you've done it, and it's easy, right?

No, wait. Your highest melee class is r39. So you're just trying to be insulting. Ok then.

"duuuurrrr" seems like the right thing to say here.

Why don't you take your own advice, and maybe people won't take offense to your posts (which apparently are not meant to be derisive in some kind of broad context taking into account your entire post history). For the record it was the "durrrrrr" that set me off, why would you ever say that to another person? Why would you say or type that period, it's cringe worthy.

Also Felis wasn't referring to me but the person you had quoted. They are right "any idiot can do it", it's not that hard and its better to tell people that than propagate the notion that the dungeon promotes class imbalance due to the existence of an AOE (a standard encounter mechanic).

[VydarrTyr]

For the record it was the "durrrrrr" that set me off, why would you ever say that to another person? Why would you say or type that period, it's cringe worthy.

If you read the quote to which I was responding, you'll see where I got it. I put it in my message for the same reason.

The person to whom I was responding used "durrrrrr" to describe melee players who are having trouble with avoiding AoE. I put it into my response because I thought it was incredibly annoying, and if Misha used it to describe melee players who can't beat the Ogre, then it applies to her as well.

Also Felis wasn't referring to me but the person you had quoted.

Then Felis was wrong. Here's the Lodestone page for the person I quoted. Her Pug isn't 50. It's 26.

Felis was referring to you. You've got r50 Pug, and Misha doesn't. It's in your sig, and not Misha's. The only reasonable explanation is that Felis thought I was responding to you, simply because you were responding to me.

Why don't you take your own advice, and maybe people won't take offense to your posts (which apparently are not meant to be derisive in some kind of broad context taking into account your entire post history).

To whom was my post insulting? Only to people who say that anyone who can't do something is an idiot, and yet aren't capable of doing it themselves.

If you took offense to it, then your offense came from misreading my post. My post said nothing about battle mechanics or AoE. It said nothing about whether it can be done. It said nothing about whether you can do it. It just said that her post is insulting, and she's basically insulting herself.

I'm not asking you to read everything I've ever posted. I'm just suggesting that you should respond to what I've actually said. And maybe tone down the "lazy and stupid" insults.

They are right "any idiot can do it", it's not that hard and its better to tell people that than propagate the notion that the dungeon promotes class imbalance due to the existence of an AOE (a standard encounter mechanic).

**EDIT ** I may have misread your post with my initial response. If you're saying you need to speak up so that people don't think the mechanics are imbalanced, then fine. But that's got nothing to do with what I actually said. So calling me lazy doesn't achieve your goal of fighting the idea of class imbalance.

[Neptune]

I said it on page 1 already but my post got deleted...Neptune is trying to get EVERY possible way of getting his MP costs being reduced at least tried out.

He gives a *** about meeles and them being excluded from the R50 dnugeon, he just uses them as another "argument" for his MP cost to be reduced, which he tried like over nine thousand times already.

Why assume everyone is so selfish? Why would you assume I don't care about other players getting excluded? What is going on right now is ridiculous. I log on, my group farms Batraal, and we practically throw away axes that drop since nobody has Marauder up. It's completely unfair for 4/5ths of melee to be so looked down upon. I've been looked down on in FFXI for trying to do my thing so I know what it feels like to have the community turn against you.. because of the initiative of the battle planner.

im sorry but it's the community's fault melee aren't invited. people are typically cowards and opportunists who'd rather take the easy road.

it's partially the community's fault but that's not the whole story. look upstream.

As for melee range to suck it up, the patch 1.18a notes just blew Neptune's mis-translation out of the water. Neptune, I know you're hurt over the new patch, but you're close to hysterical; you're overthinking. Calm yourself; take a break if you need to, and come back to the game and forums with a fresh mind. It can be hard to adapt, and I don't blame you for that; we're only human. As far as I can see, Matsui never failed or told us to suck it up, no matter how you interpret it, or, importantly, the rest of the community views it.

So Neptune, go do some meditation, yoga, or something to relax yourself. Even R-rated stuff that help you unwind, do it. Then, when you feel fully refreshed, come back with an open mind. I liked the you that had new and good ideas for how the game should proceed, but recently, you've turned to grumbling. Please, Neptune, turn back. What's done is done; SE can reach a compromise, but if you continue acting as you are, most likely, they'll turn a blind eye. Perhaps sit back and make a list of new stuff you want this game to have, innovative things that can help foster better content or community appeal. You have it in you, I'm sure, and to spend all that potential on topics such as these is such a waste.

Take a break, from the forums and the game. You'll feel better for it, and return to us with a brighter attitude and mind to blow us out with your usual standard of topics and posts.

Thanks for this post. I genuinely appreciate your remarks.

I summed up the translation by Reinheart in the headline with the actual translation in the OP and the English official translation came not far behind it. Anyway, all it says in the patch notes is what Matsui said he was going to do.. buff melees - which I already pointed out is an inadequate response. I mean it's great that they got buffs but a buff can't change this situation because it's nested too far down in the hierarchy of causes for this issue. It will only lead to more successful runs of groups that were willing to take melee in the first place, and the GLA/CON/ARC groups will keep right on trucking. That's the whole reason I made this thread, to get a response from Matsui that is actually going to change things for the better.

I feel you though.. the forums have been getting on my nerves, but I'm really not as cynical as I may appear to be. I still have a lot of good ideas and things I'd like to post about, but did you notice the string of "busy, we'll look into it" responses? I'm focusing on posting about things that they are busy working on - not things they're too busy to work on. That's what these forums are for after all. I don't believe grumbling is a good way to look at the threads I've posted. What the dev team wants to know is how people feel about changes, anger, frustration, surprise, disappointment included. Negative emotions are still valuable feedback. A complete patch can avoid negativity by being well designed. I appreciate you being so constructive, but I really don't think this is a great time for me to be posting imaginative suggestions when they are so focused on practical matters. There are a lot of active dev tags about issues that could really make or break this game right now. You'll see my apparent attitude change after that, if I'm still playing.

Try to take a look at this thread as something more than complaining - it's about human behavior and how online games are evolving as the relationship between dev team and players becomes clearer - distilled into an opinion about one single issue negatively affecting other players.

[Ryndael]

Ah shit, massive fail by me. Thanks. -edits-

Except, you didn't fix the one that makes it sound ridiculous. Riddle = River.

[Neptune]

Except, you didn't fix the one that makes it sound ridiculous. Riddle = River.

Ryndael! Good to see you. Answers is an incredible song, have you heard the Distant Worlds version? How you liking that Astaroth Cane?

[MeowyWowie]

Why assume everyone is so selfish? Why would you assume I don't care about other players getting excluded? What is going on right now is ridiculous. I log on, my group farms Batraal, and we practically throw away axes that drop since nobody has Marauder up. It's completely unfair for 4/5ths of melee to be so looked down upon. I've been looked down on in FFXI for trying to do my thing so I know what it feels like to have the community turn against you.. because of the initiative of the battle planner.

I'd have to agree with Tirion on this.

My first impression from reading the OP was you just trying to blame Matsui's MP cost changes for the "problem" we're seeing now. You clearly emphasized ridiculous MP cost hikes as being the root cause of the problem. So to me, it seems that your OP is just another plea for SE to lower MP costs and nothing more.

Fact is, the dungeon is easily completed with just about any setup. It's just common sense that it's easier and arguably quicker with a CON/ARC setup. Regardless of what classes we bring with us, MP management is never an issue, for either boss. I will however agree that ARC is still completely OP, dealing far more damage that any other class while at the same time mitigating all possible damage simply by being out of range. The problem lies with class balancing, not content design and not MP cost adjustments.

The only thing you might not be able to do with a random party setup is getting the 5th chest. This will hopefully change with patch 1.18a later today.

[Ryndael]

Ryndael! Good to see you. Answers is an incredible song, have you heard the Distant Worlds version? How you liking that Astaroth Cane?

Aye, that it is! Which is why I happen to know the lyrics so well, haha. Yeah I love that version, and there's a violin/cello version out there too which is pretty epic.

As for the cane, I don't use it much since it has no +MP, but it still looks pretty badass, hehe.

[Shura]

I did not read every post in this thread but i did read the first and last 3 pages and it seems like OP misunderstands the original dev post.

In the original Japanese dev post he pretty much says,

In regards to powerful ranged attacks, spots are provided to avoid these attacks, such as the rear sides of the monster in question. in regards there are options to improve strategy so we'd like to continue to observe with the current setup. (NOT word to word translation)

I don't see how Matsui is telling dps to suck it up, if they are not getting invites then its the groups/ls fault for choosing to use strategies that make dps useless. I support Matsui's response on this matter; i think i would be more disappointed if he posted saying he would gimp the fight/system because afew would rather use their time to bitch on the forums rather then try different strategies. Our LS has a number of different strategies we use when we do the dungeons, each created for different type of group setups and we use DPS A LOT when doing speed runs, as the strategy we use for ogre and skele room is faster with more close range dps. so i know for a FACT there are ways to do dungeons with close ranged dps.

In regards to MP, this should NOT be a issue for any group that chooses to use close range DPS as there are spots where DPS will take no dmg and even ways to stun his aoe. When ppl learned that Fafnirs breath and tail aoe can one shot a party, ppl came up with strategies to avoid getting hit; they did not bitch and demand for a spell/ability that can instantly revive a group that got wiped.

as i stated i did not read every post so i apologize if what i posted has alrdy been said.

[Ryndael]

Yeah, it's melee's own fault. I haven't seen a single one even bother maximize their DPS/TP Gain with throwing weapons, and only a handful use attack food.

[Visch]

Let's all QQ we had a whole year to faceroll dunesfolk and didn't pick the right jobs hurrdurruduururur!!!