Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Kensei]

I wasn't "complaining" i was telling YOU what else Archer had to offer besides damage because your main point was IF SE nerfs Arc then what would they have left? Thus my answer

Stay calm lol

When I said people complaining I meant in general. And well you didn't mention anything that Arcs bring aside from damage. Out of Sight and Chameleon don't add anything to the group's performance and Chameleon isn't even needed if the Arc is skilled.

I'm calmed, it's hard to express a tone with text. It may sound like I'm pissed but I'm not lol.

[Arcell]

When I said people complaining I meant in general. And well you didn't mention anything that Arcs bring aside from damage. Out of Sight and Chameleon don't add anything to the group's performance and Chameleon isn't even needed if the Arc is skilled.

I'm calmed, it's hard to express a tone with text. It may sound like I'm pissed but I'm not lol.

It's not just the damage though. The job of a damage dealing class is to do damage yes, Archer is one of them. The reason it has such an advantage is that it can deal comparable or greater damage than other War classes at a range, and thus taking much less or no damage while doing so.

Enmity management skills such as Out of Sight and Chameleon do add to the group's performance as managing enmity is a group effort now. Everyone has to make sure they're doing their part to keep their enmity where it should be. People with low enmity can steal some off of people with high enmity with Accomplice, people can lower their enmity bit by bit over time with attacks and abilities.

[Kensei]

It's not just the damage though. The job of a damage dealing class is to do damage yes, Archer is one of them. The reason it has such an advantage is that it can deal comparable or greater damage than other War classes at a range, and thus taking much less or no damage while doing so.

Enmity management skills such as Out of Sight and Chameleon do add to the group's performance as managing enmity is a group effort now. Everyone has to make sure they're doing their part to keep their enmity where it should be. People with low enmity can steal some off of people with high enmity with Accomplice, people can lower their enmity bit by bit over time with attacks and abilities.

You are right but I'm just surprised to see so many blame Archer's damage output as the reason others don't get invites. The reason is, as you and I said in a post earlier, being able to attack out of AoE range. Nerfing ARCs damage will do nothing to change that. People who want easy mode will still invite Archer over the others.

[Arcell]

You are right but I'm just surprised to see so many blame Archer's damage output as the reason others don't get invites. The reason is, as you and I said in a post earlier, being able to attack out of AoE range. Nerfing ARCs damage will do nothing to change that. People who want easy mode will still invite Archer over the others.

Well no nerfing the damage of Archers/increasing the damage of other War damage classes will help. There has to be incentive to invite other War damage classes, damage would be a great incentive. Either you can bring other War classes and have higher DPS and thus clear some things faster or you can bring some Archers which increases survivability at the cost of some of that DPS.

It's not just damage or just range, it's the fact that they have the best of both worlds. You certainly can't decrease their range in comparison to other classes but damage is an acceptable balance.

[Kensei]

Well no nerfing the damage of Archers/increasing the damage of other War damage classes will help. There has to be incentive to invite other War damage classes, damage would be a great incentive.

The other classes deal great damage, it is not an issue. With the increased MP costs SE made healing an issue. Archer's range allows mages to be able to focus their MP on the tank making it easier to clear the dungeon that way. However it very possible to clear the dungeon with melee classes. You can't give incentive to laziness, that's a player/community issue, not the game's design.

Either you can bring other War classes and have higher DPS and thus clear some things faster or you can bring some Archers which increases survivability at the cost of some of that DPS.

A reasonable damage boost to the melee classes would never greatly overshadow Archer. It would just not be fair or make sense. The only thing they could do is make them all deal comparable damage but even then if the players are too lazy to reposition themselves at the sides to not get hit by AoE that is their problem not the game's. You are asking for SE to force players to invite other classes when that's a community issue.

It's not just damage or just range, it's the fact that they have the best of both worlds. You certainly can't decrease their range in comparison to other classes but damage is an acceptable balance.

The best of the two in this instance, not in general. You want SE to adjust the game based on one raid. What if the boss stayed static in one position and there was AoE all over the place except at melee range? Then Archers wouldn't get invites because they can take very little damage compared to the other classes. Would that mean that they have to give Archers the same durability as a Gladiator? Of course not. Every encounter will be easier for some, it's variety. Now it's an issue because it's the one raid. As SE adds more raids encounters will favor different approaches.

[Arcell]

The best of the two in this instance, not in general. You want SE to adjust the game based on one raid. What if the boss stayed static in one position and there was AoE all over the place except at melee range? Then Archers wouldn't get invites because they can take very little damage compared to the other classes. Would that mean that they have to give Archers the same durability as a Gladiator? Of course not. Every encounter will be easier for some, it's variety. Now it's an issue because it's the one raid. As SE adds more raids encounters will favor different approaches.

No I'm speaking in general. This dungeon is a very good example of why things need to be balanced a bit more but it will continue happening in future dungeons if things don't change. Ranged damage should not be equal to melee damage, otherwise they still have the advantage of staying out of range and not getting hit. I'm not saying they should do obnoxiously less than others but enough of a difference to be noticeable at least. Maybe 85-90% of melee damage. People would still bring them as they have little chance to die so they would be the "safe" bet in most cases. If you wanted to take a few more chances and do more damage at the cost of higher potential death then they would bring melee classes.

Yes I am one of these melee classes, Pugilist. We've gotten a strange end of the stick as we now have MP cost added to a few of our staple attacks. However I intend to take Musketeer up the minute it's available. That being said I would still be okay with less damage for the advantage of the range and whatever else they bring to the table.

Edit: Another acceptable way to tip the balance away from Archers would be to make some things much more resistant to pierce. Make those damage modifiers actually mean something noticeable.