Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Firon]

To me no matter how they make fights certain jobs will always get left out this happens in a lot of mmo's

[Neptune]

To me no matter how they make fights certain jobs will always get left out this happens in a lot of mmo's

It's like an unintended consequence. The leaders should strive to minimize it, and definitely should do something about extreme cases of it after it's happened.

[Aldora]

No, no it's not possible to improve since they are never going to get the opportunity. The decisions he makes affects group composition.. he needs to change the flow not think about battle balance.

I believe that adjusting the balance will also change the flow of a battle and require different strategies for bringing down tough (boss) mobs. Therefore, for now i tend to put the lack of melee invites under the "balancing"-work they will be doing for the patches 1.19 and 1.20.

For all we know, the introduction of the Job-system might reduce MP Cost for healing abilities when selecting the "Healer"-job or maybe increase the damage dealt melee classes when the "Warrior"-job has been selected. But, i do not want to speculate what SE has in store for us in the upcomming patches.

Personally, i'm going to wait untill they are finished implementing the new battle- and job-system before diving into game. But that's just me...

[Firon]

It's like an unintended consequence. The leaders should strive to minimize it, and definitely should do something about extreme cases of it after it's happened.

So what should they do punish ranged jobs for doing their jobs? I really don't see this being a problem when people are beating this w/o all arc teams. Meowwowie had shown us a great vid of them slaying the ogre. it just feels like you are saying they should lower mp's cost and let melee stay in and just get hit and so mages can spam cure's.

[Neptune]

I believe that adjusting the balance will also change the flow of a battle and require different strategies for bringing down tough (boss) mobs. Therefore, for now i tend to put the lack of melee invites under the "balancing"-work they will be doing for the patches 1.19 and 1.20.

For all we know, the introduction of the Job-system might reduce MP Cost for healing abilities when selecting the "Healer"-job or maybe increase the damage dealt melee classes when the "Warrior"-job has been selected. But, i do not want to speculate what SE has in store for us in the upcomming patches.

Personally, i'm going to wait untill they are finished implementing the new battle- and job-system before diving into game. But that's just me...

At best you're right, and at worst you're horribly wrong. But that's why I post on these forums, to ensure the best possible outcome. I just want to do my part to make the issues clear. Your suggestions would be great and I hope that is exactly what happens. I was talking about flow of player behavior actually.

I really don't see this being a problem when people are beating this w/o all arc teams. Meowwowie had shown us a great vid of them slaying the ogre. it just feels like you are saying they should lower mp's cost and let melee stay in and just get hit and so mages can spam cure's.

If you don't see a problem you should ask around your server and talk to some of the melee players who have had a lot of trouble getting into Darkhold runs. The real problem is that the dev team doesn't see the kind of feedback that is right there in front of them. MP costs should be lowered because it should only take 2 mages not 3-5. Spam curing is fine for a few minutes, maybe 5. Right now you could maybe get off like 1 minute of true cure spam before wipe.

[Zkieve]

To me no matter how they make fights certain jobs will always get left out this happens in a lot of mmo's

This dude speaks the truth, is inevitable.

[Rydin]

Overpowered, underpowered, its all a matter of the vision the developers have for the game, for classes/jobs and for the battle system

You can look at trends though. For instance... offline console final fantasy games always make ranged attacks weaker than close range melee weapons. the people in the back row would do less damage but are in a safer spot and in turn, get hit for less... The strongest things in those games were always some metal melee weapons and magic spells

For their online counterparts, SE decided to change up the system, which isn't always a bad thing... and give ranged attackers damage that is on par with and sometimes surpasses the melee DPS, while still being able to remain at a safe distance from the MOBs annoying AOE attacks...

Is that overpowered? I don't know....
I think they've made it easier to use this ranged strategy

But...

You could also try stunning, paralyzing interrupting the MOB and drain/lower their TP making it possible for close range MOBs to get in close without fear of being destroyed.

Another thing to keep in mind, right now although Archers are in high demand.... A party of Archers that have only Archer leveled wont be as useful. Battle regimen hinge on having weaponskills from multiple classes. So even if its an archer in the party... He will be most useful if he can throw Doomspike II or Victimize II or something like that into the regimen

I guess what I am trying to say is, I can see both sides of it...
It really does bother me that someone who has just pugilist to 50, for instance, is detered from entering

[Zkieve]

Overpowered, underpowered, its all a matter of the vision the developers have for the game, for classes/jobs and for the battle system

I think is not the devs who make this or that class over/underpowered.Is the players.

Anyone remember what was NIN intended purpose in 11 and how it ended up?
Thats it right there.

[Eekiki]

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant people that attack in melee range, all DoW except Gladiator.

Okay, gotcha.

I dunno Neptune, that's not the impression I'm getting from this translation. Sounds to me like SE's plan is to give melees a damage buff, and possibly a buff to their self-healing abilities.

Even if that's the case, I'm kind of on the fence about that. Yeah, melees need some kind of damage buff to help them compete a little more with archers, but I have some concerns.

If abilities like second wind are enhanced, that lowers the market rating for Conjurers. I thought the whole intention was to make Conjurers the main healer class.

Second, one of the reasons I chose Pugilist was because it appeared to me that its purpose was to be an offensive tank, absorbing damage through speed and evasion, and maintaining hate through dealing damage. This would be opposed by the Gladiator, a defensive tank, using enmity generating abilities and absorbing damage through vitality and shield blocking.

A friend of mine chose MRD, because MRD had a standard TP-generating attack that could hit multiple enemies. Now that attack is on a 30 second cooldown (or something like that, I haven't played MRD) and MRD's auto-attack hits only one enemy.

So me choosing PGL to be an offensive tank, and my friend choosing MRD to be a crowd control melee attacker, are now just regular old DD's, and outshined in that department by ARCs.

I'm not saying ARC shouldn't be the most powerful physical attacker, but ARC is so far ahead of other DD classes it isn't even worth it for your average player to bother with anything but ARC.

[Rydin]

I think is not the devs who make this or that class over/underpowered.Is the players.

Anyone remember what was NIN intended purpose in 11 and how it ended up?
Thats it right there.

True... I guess.. but then the players have to work within the system the devs created...

Neo, theirs is a system bound by rules...

You have to think, 10 months into the game, any well known technique, strategy or play style is known by the devs, and if they don't change it, then they are making a statement that it is within the vision they had for the game