Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Sav]

This is the only endgame fight out right now. Once more are implemented, will this still be a problem? I haven't done the raid yet, so I can't comment. At least solo, I'm content with the MP cost of Cures. Then again, I'm a CON.

Would your solution be for them to drop the MP cost on heals? Or make the boss more melee friendly? Either way, favoring ranged attacks is a type of strategy, and strategies are more valuable, in my opinion, than tank-n'-spank boss fights.

It's not that I can't relate completely, though. In FFXI, my main was THF, meaning I was useful for pretty much just sky farming and nothing else. I'd manage to get pity invites to other events from LS mates, heh.

If it's a game-breaker for you, keep in mind the raid is still only two weeks old. People need time to get comfortable with it.

[Neptune]

This is the only endgame fight out right now. Once more are implemented, will this still be a problem?

Would your solution be for them to drop the MP cost on heals? Or make the boss more melee friendly? Either way, favoring ranged attacks is a type of strategy, and strategies are more valuable, in my opinion, than tank-n'-spank boss fights.

...keep in mind the raid is still only two weeks old. People need time to get comfortable with it.

Yes, it will always be a problem. Make no mistake the dev team worked very hard on this dungeon, and I'll post my overall thoughts about it later. No doubt the gameplay was not as good with the old healing magic system and that's why they changed it. But it isn't worth the trade off, as I have stated elsewhere. It will continue to be a problem until they come up with something that doesn't rest on spare curing as the backbone.

My solution? If I were in charge every class would be in charge of managing its own limited healing options. The dev team is best equipped to create the challenging gameplay they want and prioritize what's important to them. What I'm shocked about is that even after this generous period of feedback since the patch, this is all Matsui can come up with. Clearly something is broken when it relies on MP costs alone. Good God, why don't they fire up WoW. Healing is important in the really tough fights in that game but it's not broken. I remember from WoW that if melee messed up they could get healers into trouble, and if it went on way to long it would be a wipe. That seems to be a more desirable outcome than melee getting dropped from serious groups straight up.

The thing is even if people do get comfortable with it, people have already been mistreated for 2 weeks. How do you think some of them feel, especially if they're already feeling down about this game or the patch to begin with?

I'm not entirely sure what your point is because of your use of the term "melee range". What's that mean?

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant people that attack in melee range, all DoW except Gladiator.

Did you even play 11 OP? Wtf.

XI is irrelevant.. just because Tanaka couldn't solve a problem doesn't give that problem an excuse to exist! Do you really want all the problems from XI in a new game? I believe that's called masochism.

[Eekiki]

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant people that attack in melee range, all DoW except Gladiator.

Okay, gotcha.

I dunno Neptune, that's not the impression I'm getting from this translation. Sounds to me like SE's plan is to give melees a damage buff, and possibly a buff to their self-healing abilities.

Even if that's the case, I'm kind of on the fence about that. Yeah, melees need some kind of damage buff to help them compete a little more with archers, but I have some concerns.

If abilities like second wind are enhanced, that lowers the market rating for Conjurers. I thought the whole intention was to make Conjurers the main healer class.

Second, one of the reasons I chose Pugilist was because it appeared to me that its purpose was to be an offensive tank, absorbing damage through speed and evasion, and maintaining hate through dealing damage. This would be opposed by the Gladiator, a defensive tank, using enmity generating abilities and absorbing damage through vitality and shield blocking.

A friend of mine chose MRD, because MRD had a standard TP-generating attack that could hit multiple enemies. Now that attack is on a 30 second cooldown (or something like that, I haven't played MRD) and MRD's auto-attack hits only one enemy.

So me choosing PGL to be an offensive tank, and my friend choosing MRD to be a crowd control melee attacker, are now just regular old DD's, and outshined in that department by ARCs.

I'm not saying ARC shouldn't be the most powerful physical attacker, but ARC is so far ahead of other DD classes it isn't even worth it for your average player to bother with anything but ARC.

[Firon]

Okay, gotcha.

I dunno Neptune, that's not the impression I'm getting from this translation. Sounds to me like SE's plan is to give melees a damage buff, and possibly a buff to their self-healing abilities.

Even if that's the case, I'm kind of on the fence about that. Yeah, melees need some kind of damage buff to help them compete a little more with archers, but I have some concerns.

If abilities like second wind are enhanced, that lowers the market rating for Conjurers. I thought the whole intention was to make Conjurers the main healer class.

Second, one of the reasons I chose Pugilist was because it appeared to me that its purpose was to be an offensive tank, absorbing damage through speed and evasion, and maintaining hate through dealing damage. This would be opposed by the Gladiator, a defensive tank, using enmity generating abilities and absorbing damage through vitality and shield blocking.

A friend of mine chose MRD, because MRD had a standard TP-generating attack that could hit multiple enemies. Now that attack is on a 30 second cooldown (or something like that, I haven't played MRD) and MRD's auto-attack hits only one enemy.

So me choosing PGL to be an offensive tank, and my friend choosing MRD to be a crowd control melee attacker, are now just regular old DD's, and outshined in that department by ARCs.

I'm not saying ARC shouldn't be the most powerful physical attacker, but ARC is so far ahead of other DD classes it isn't even worth it for your average player to bother with anything but ARC.

actually PUG can still tank just fine for me, if anything it is much more easy now.

[Eekiki]

actually PUG can still tank just fine for me, if anything it is much more easy now.

Absolutely true, but ask yourself this: If you had to choose between a PGL and GLA to tank the darkhold, what would you choose? If you had both PGL and GLA geared and rank 50 and were asked to tank, which class would you choose?

Even MRD can tank just fine if you know what you're doing, but nothing can tank like a GLA. If it's SE's intention to make GLA the only dedicated tank class, that's fine. But what makes MRD, PGL, and LNC unique from each other besides the weapon, and an ability or two? Before it was kinda like this:

GLA: defensive tank
PGL: offensive tank
MRD: crowd control melee
LNC: support melee
ARC: ranged damage
THM: arcane magic
CON: elemental magic

Looks to me like Yoshi-P's "class uniqueness" was already in the game. Now this is the direction it appears to be heading to me:

GLA: tank
CON: healer/support
THM: nuke/debuff/DoT
ARC: ranged attack
MRD: melee
PGL: melee
LNC: melee

Yes, it isn't this cut and dry yet, but as I said, it looks like this is the direction we're headed in.

[mysterytaru]

I believe that's called masochism.

Masochism is playing a game you *clearly* don't like and doing nothing but whining about it.

[Neptune]

I only have a few minutes but I picked the two most incendiary posts to reply to.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Interesting. I wasn't hiding anything. It's right out there in the open why I opened this thread, and you're right that it's consistent with my other threads about this patch. MP cost was a small change that has had an incredible effect on the balance of the game. It's becoming clear that the entire dungeon was balanced on the tip of healing magic casting, a ridiculous and unacceptable scenario.

So you don't think that sticking up for other classes merits further attention from me? I noticed that you are a Gladiator and Archer. No wonder you don't care about anyone but yourself. Way to go.

Masochism is playing a game you *clearly* don't like and doing nothing but whining about it.

Masochism is the love of pain. If I don't like it what does that tell you?

To you two who think criticism is whining, I'd like you to ask yourselves why asking for change is annoying to you. All I hear outta you is that you want to improve your own entertainment at the direct expense of others.

[Neptune]

Because these mechanics are also part of FFXIV, I see no serious issue with AOE's as a melee.

All I see in Matsui's post is a promise to boost melee damage which is awesome, as for the rest thank god, THANK GOD that he is not interested in doing away with every single challenging boss mechanic simply because some people are overreacting and crying wolf before they bother to seek simple solutions to their problems themselves.

I agree with you, Melee's have to step it up when dealing with AOEs. It's part of the game. I'm glad the content is so challenging now, feels like I'm playing a real game. You might have missed my point. I'm upset that melee players haven't really been given a good chance at the content because of the extreme skew towards mages in the party and cure costs being so high.

Yes, some people are stupid that that either boot you or basically wont let you party with them which is kinda rude imo.. sometimes I don't get it but oh well

I agree that it's rude.. but I understand where the motivation comes from. Unfortunately, indirectly, it comes from Matsui.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

I'm having fun with the game actually.. I'm trying to do what I can and make suggestions to improve the game so that it can be enjoyed beyond a narrow niche.

The reason why Archers are chosen over Melee is quite simple.

Archer do just as much, if not more, damage than melee, without having to interrupt themselves to avoid AoE or put themselves at risk of being struck by said AoE. I've learned that the best place for a non-gladiator melee was on the sides of the Void Slave, however with Inferno drop, you still need to stop DPSing and move out of it's range. Archers have just as much reward as melee with none of the risk. Neither the dungeons, nor the archers need nerfs, melee classes have to be given buffs, to match the amount of risk associated with being on the front lines.

I like your thinking! MP costs will have to change to accomodate this and it's a great solution to the Archer problem.

[Spectre]

I'm having fun with the game actually.. I'm trying to do what I can and make suggestions to improve the game so that it can be enjoyed beyond a narrow niche.

I had to laugh... kept refraining from posting the whole thread until this.

So just to understand, you start the "suggestion" thread with a huge insult, followed by a half hearted thank you.

Then you continue to post an unofficial translation from which you paraphrase into a different context instead of the official translation posted by a community rep which states the response from the dev team in a manner that you can't manipulate as easy http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post274028.

Then you single out one statement and assume that it can only mean one thing, and then berate the guy based off your assumption about class balance and battle systems that they have stated haven't been finished yet.

Then you throw in your real concern, (high mp cost of cures) which you could have just stated in the first place instead of trying to belittle the first pass efforts of the dev team for five paragraphs.

And this is your tactic for posting a "suggestion"?

Good luck with that, I'm sure it will be well recieved.

Strategy works two ways, players might need to adjust to class mechanics, class damage might need to be tweaked, or the mechanics of the fight might need to be changed to increase risk to ranged classes. It' doesn't nessecarily mean "you need to learn to play", and your implication that they ment that is fairly rude, considering right after that statement they say they are monitoring it and will address it, saying again afterwards that more changes are inbound.

Quite simply, you are mad about the mp cost, and see it as the root of all evil, and trying to blame it on someone. I don't like the higher costs either. The differance is that I'm not assuming that it's now set in stone and I need to insult and berate people to get it fixed my way. I don't assume my way is the only way to fix it. I realize that the game is probably at it's most unstable state right now since release with classes changed and jobs not yet put in. Maybe a whitemage job gets 50% cure mp reduction? I don't know, neither do you.

Your over-reacting and lashing out. Step back, state your "suggestion" in a more repectful tone, and then wait and see what happens.