Undercutting

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Undercuting becomes a problem on slow selling high budget items. Where you can se usually a few listings like 2 or 3 and just a few more on history. Usually high end crafters on this case tends to match the price of the first seller, at least the ones with "etiquette" so the one who sells becomes completely random on about who is the buyer gonna pick since they are all at the same price. Problem with undercut is:

1.- Player new to the market gets into it and forces a crash from lets say, 5.000.000 to 2.000.000. Of course you could "flip" it, but on slow items that flip could give you rewards a few weeks later.
2.- Player new to the market sells the item cheaper than the materials. Let say an ifrit i95 weapon cost 2.000.000 millions to make, rounding the ifrit horn to 1 mill, the BCIII to 1 mill and giving away the other materials. New player puts the ifrit weapon at 1.700.000.

The reasons for the second one are usually the wrong thought of "if i got it myself (retainer, drop, gathering) so is free cause i didn`t invest any money and i can undercut as much as i want cause others spend money". Well, no, there isn`t such a thing as a "free" item on the economy, even if you didn`t spend a single gil on the items, they still have value, and use those materials to craft something is still an investment. And in both escenarios all players are losing money, cause the undercutter is getting less money than he could have by sticking to the average prices or by selling lower than the materials price, and the other players lose their chance to sell that item, which is a loss for everyone selling.

Now about the undercutting itself, is normal, yet it could be controled by a few market restrictions and options that are most needed, in fact the whole MB could use some serious enhancements beyond the listing and the interface.

-A limit on how much you could undercut someone, or at least, a warning before listing at +15% under the cheapest item that warns you are about to damage the market.
-A tool that allows MB players to know the average price of the items, so you don`t have people undercuting without proper information, history of sells just doesnt make it, in fact is natural to see jumps and drops of 500% on several items all over the place.
-Buy orders. Seriously. Players don`t have a way to know what players efectively want (demanding sucks, i play on cactuar, highly populated server and demanded items are so low, barely above 100... obviusly people doesnt care about demaning) and how much they are willing to pay.

That alone would stabilize the markets and stop the cobalt halberd at 6.000 gil, next day, 54.000 gil. And that repeats all over the place, and as time goes on, more and more players get to the 3 star markets and things just get worse and worse. The devaluation is normal, what is not normal is see how augmented saurian items for example, are being undercut even up to 2 times less than their actual material costs, which includes all the materials of the normal tabard, which is, just fun. The solution to undercutting is not just flipping. Undercutting is normal and a form of competition on properly regulated markets, on a absolutely free market with just a 5% fee for the gil sink, undercutting is actually hurting us all and in fact, making fair competition almost impossible.

You can`t regulate human "specialness", but you can regulate the markets.

[Azper]

I love undercutting. Market Board Wars is the highlight of my day sometimes.

[Dashuto]

It is quite possible I will be found out for posting this.

But I have made sure my retainers on my server can be recognized by sight, and are notorious. I do massive amounts of selling and repurchase through them, and I always use them to make a point.

Any time someone undercuts me, I undercut them very severely, and I am willing to crash/ruin the specific market we share just to teach them that lesson. I have even crashed a market because of people attempting to purchase from me and then resell with a price fix. I make them regret that thoroughly as well and sell at a loss.

It has taken almost a year, but now people seem to know who my retainers are, and they patiently wait their turn behind mine for its stuff to sell. This has paid off in the long run. There is occasionally an ignorant undercutter, and I quickly ruin their life unless it is not worth my time. This works out, as I like to diversify my options when possible, so I prefer to put a handful of items up in each market I'm working with and wake to them having all sold overnight. When I actually want profit, I avoid flooding and ruining.

I will not pretend I am a good person, but business is business, and I will be as ruthless as I need to be to come out on top. I find it a little entertaining maneuvering back and forth with people employing my same strategies.

[Scootaloo]

snip

No, your stupid. Undercutting is one thing but crashing an in game economy for the personal satisfaction of "Whoo! I taught them a lesson!" is down right borderline retardation.

The only thing your doing is making sure the people who don't have the gil to buy items on your server suffer more than they already are because you wanna know what happens after a market crashes?

It inflates ten fold.

We're seen it happen everytime the stock market crashed in the real world.

Once the economy recovers from the crash, businesses jack up their prices in an effort to recover the profits lost, the result is the government being forced to print more money to counterbalance this inflation.

The difference between in game economies and real life is that no extra money can be put into circulation by SE.

[Defteros]

No, your stupid. [/B]

Ewwwww.
/10char

[Dashuto]

know what happens after a market crashes?

It inflates ten fold.
.[/B]

Yes, precisely.

And?

You should read my post more thoroughly, I benefit greatly from this instance, and I strike down others who attempt to do the same as me.


I'm honestly not so ruthless in anything else but the gil- if that means anything at all to you.

[Squa11_Leonhart]

No, your stupid. Undercutting is one thing but crashing an in game economy for the personal satisfaction of "Whoo! I taught them a lesson!" is down right borderline retardation.

The only thing your doing is making sure the people who don't have the gil to buy items on your server suffer more than they already are because you wanna know what happens after a market crashes?

It inflates ten fold.

We're seen it happen everytime the stock market crashed in the real world.

Once the economy recovers from the crash, businesses jack up their prices in an effort to recover the profits lost, the result is the government being forced to print more money to counterbalance this inflation.

The difference between in game economies and real life is that no extra money can be put into circulation by SE.

Again.

DO NOT, compare stock to commodity.

[Destain]

No, your stupid. Undercutting is one thing but crashing an in game economy for the personal satisfaction of "Whoo! I taught them a lesson!" is down right borderline retardation.

The difference between in game economies and real life is that no extra money can be put into circulation by SE.

It's "You're stupid" genius. Yes SE could put additional Gil into circulation rather easily. Quests or a quest with a high gil reward.

[Fyrebrand]

It is quite possible I will be found out for posting this.

But I have made sure my retainers... are notorious
I always use them to make a point
I am willing to crash/ruin the specific market we share just to teach them that lesson
I make them regret that thoroughly
I quickly ruin their life
I will be as ruthless as I need to be to come out on top.

zzzzzzzz -- wha?? Huh? Did you say something? I nodded off there.

Sorry, but no one cares. No one knows who you or your retainers are. You are imagining things. Someone's item failing to sell right away is not ruining their life or teaching them a lesson. Players will continue to sell items for whatever prices they want, which is how it should be.

I'm honestly not so ruthless in anything else but the gil- if that means anything at all to you.

It doesn't.

[Dashuto]

.

Not only did you care enough about my post, but you cared enough to mock it up to sound even worse.

Did I strike a nerve perhaps?

To make profit you should keep a cool head. The purpose of my tactics seems lost on you.

Its something called "market control". By controlling the prices, when it inflates or deflates, and discouraging my competition, I end up in control of the market.

I first realized this from a crafter on FFXI named "Semitry", who beat me up pretty good on my way up. I'm sure anyone who career crafted on Midgardsormr would remember this fellow.

He would blast the market with dozens of HQ Scorpion harness to force the price of NQ's into nil, he bought out materials used to level to 100 out from beneath people and skyrocketed their price, stockpiling loads of it that would never be used, all to control the market, make profit off his desperate competitors, and trick elitists into paying 1000% for the HQ product. Then he'd let the market sit and resell those loads of cheap NQ's at a profit.

At first I was angry- but then I realized just how effective his tactic was. He had "market control", he was able to directly manipulate its prices, his profit, and the possibility of those willing to compete with him at all.

So at that point I decided to learn from it. I enter into a field of about 4-5 goods and I use a very similar method, I drive out my competition while stocking up, then make profit off the stock, then drive it higher for even more profit. Others begin trying to hop on board and make profit from my efforts there- and then I start the process again, often demolishing them in the process. Not always, just often.