A couple of newbie tank questions

[tocsin]

I am a relatively new tank (lvl 28 GLA currently) and although I don't have too much trouble holding aggro spamming fast->savage->RoH->flash->fast->savage... rinse repeat, I had a few questions about what I should be practicing to do for closer to endgame.

Should I use chat announces for when I pop cooldowns, such as rampart and convalescence?

Is there a reason to get into the habit of marking more than one creature per pull, as I only mark the first one to kill, via a mark/shield lob macro

Are there any definitive guides that people have used for Gladiator/pally tanking? I have found a plethora of warrior ones, but almost nothing in terms of pally mechanics.

[Coldea]

- If you want to hold hate, i would suggest opening with flash (2x, 3x ?) before doing your Halone combo, because the healer/fairy generates hate on all the targets (that's how enmity works with healing).

- Dont spam the chat, your fellow healer is probably new as well, and doesnt know that Convalescence increases his heals.

- Assume that your DPS are lazy and use TAB to get a new target. Sometimes it can be hard to maintain hate on multiple targets (before Defiance and Shield Oath), so it's always nice to know what to target once the first target is dead. If they dont follow the marks, it cant be your fault...

- To me, Paladins are easier to use (compared to War) because it's much more straight forward : you have a huge defense and use cooldowns to take even less damage. Warriors use their cooldowns to heal themselves, gain/spend Wrath stacks, which makes then mechanically more difficult, hence the guides. Knowing when/how you have to use your cooldowns is what makes a good paladin.

[Bixby]

For most cooldowns, in most situations, don't bother. Having an announcement for Hallowed Ground I could see, just because it's big enough to actually make a difference in what the healers are doing. Any other time, you're using your cooldowns well or you're not, and your HP bar tells them most of what they need to know about that. For content where silence actually matters, maybe an announcement for Spirits Within, but I'd switch the announcement on or off depending on that. Spamming the chat when you're just using it for extra damage is annoying.

I personally don't mark more than one. If I haven't established enough threat on the rest by the time the first one is dead, something is wrong that more marks probably aren't going to fix.

There are some Paladin guides buried deep, deep in this forum. Around when 2.1 came out, because that was the last time there was all that much to talk about. But there isn't a lot of mechanical intricacy or twisty curveballs in Paladin abilities. The tooltips cover it pretty well. I'd concentrate on fight-specific guides when/if you need them.

[ItaruKarin]

Don't bother announcing your cooldowns. Pre-endgame, most people don't care, and in endgame, the people who do care will check it either way.

As for marking, it's a matter of taste. I always mark all the targets, and it doesn't take me longer than marking only one (I just press the macro button once per mob, it marks and switch to the next, job's done.) Having a shield lob macroed in is something I don't really understand, but to each his own.

There's no guide that I know of, but it's not rocket science and can be guessed right most of the time, which isn't the case for warriors. I do have a few advice though.

- Mark them all
- Lob on #1
- Flash once per enemy (2 times if there are two enemies, three times if there are three...). It effectively secures aggro, blinds them all, and doesn't boost their blind resistance as long as the 3rd flash goes off less than 6 seconds after the 1st.
- Fast blade on #1 => Savage Blade on #2 => RoH on #1 => Fast Blade on #1 => Savage Blade on #3 => RoH on #1 => Flash => Rinse and repeat

Pop your cooldowns if you want to so that the healer can dps a bit, just make sure to have them up by the time you get to the boss.

This is what I do for trash groups, but it works on boss too. Just keep a cooldown up at all time if you don't know the fight. I realize after reading this that it may seem scholar and unoriginal, but it is a fairly foolproof tanking method which has never failed me as long as the DPS follow the order. If they don't... Well, just throw in a RoH on their mob from time to time.

[Mertrodome]

Provoke might be useful to announce in 8-man DF stuff because there's some tank swap mechanics but it's not a huge deal.

One tip is to try and reduce movement as much as you can. Melee is very position-dependent so give them an easy time - while you can't block or parry from the rear, it's not worth dancing around to get them all in front of you. You can put your back to a wall for a big pull to help.

Soon you'll come across an increase in difficulty tanking-wise and you might struggle to keep aggro against AoEing BLMs etc before you get Shield Oath at 40. Remember tab-targetting won't interrupt your Halone combo and neither will Flash.

There's a guide in progress that someone posted on Reddit that's fairly up-to-date. Not read all of it yet, but might help you out: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...6ig/edit?pli=1

[Nyalia]

A few random tips from someone who mains PLD:

1. Don't tie marking to shield lob. It's not that much faster than hitting one extra button, and it prevents you from pulling before marking. Some DPS (like me when I go BLM) want to start their cast before you actually pull anyway due to long-ish cast times.
2. Mark all but the last target. If you don't care about the order after the first one, after your initial mark, use tab to select the next one to mark rather than picking randomly. Chances are high that your DPS will use tab to switch targets and ignore the marks after the first one anyway, but this helps you know which they're hitting.
3. If one of your DPS is ignoring marks, mark the one he attacks as #1. Don't get into an argument, it's really not worth it. Just move the marks to be correct for the other DPS's sake (and yours).
4. Open with Shield Lob, run in, flash twice if there are 3+ mobs, and then start your RoH combo. Flash between combos if you have to, but you shouldn't.
5. Your RoH combo does not have to be all on one target. Split it up. Note that Fast Blade causes almost no aggro, relatively speaking, and RoH causes a massive amount. I think Fast Blade has a 1x damage->aggro modifier, Savage has a 3x, and RoH has a 6x, all in addition to the later ones having a higher potency. I could be wrong on those numbers, but the general message is correct. Don't expect Fast Blade to increase aggro a noticeable amount.
6. If you hadn't noticed (took me forever to notice this), when you have an enemy selected, the game shows you everyone in your party's relative aggro for that target in the party list. There are little bars to the left of people's names showing the aggro. If someone has an A next to their class icon, that person has aggro.
7. Regen causes aggro every time it heals. It's not that much aggro, but it's not nothing. This is not a problem normally, but if you have Regen on you when you pull, your healer will likely pull aggro off of you immediately, even without healing. You can cancel buffs by right-clicking on them - cancel Regen (or let it wear off) before pulling.
8. Cycle your cooldowns. Generally, you don't need multiple up at once, so just use one when you want some mitigation. Also, use your cooldowns. Except in endgame content, they are not massive damage mitigation for emergencies (exception: Hallowed Ground), they're long-term relief for your healers.
9. Don't use Fracture (cross-class from MRD). It's terrible and generates less aggro than a fast blade (DoT ticks do not trigger aggro).
10. Face enemies away from the party. It's not that important early on, but a good habit to have for endgame.
11. If there is a ranged enemy in the group you are fighting, pull the melee enemies to it.
12. The only skills you should announce the use of are Hallowed Ground and Cover. For some endgame content, you'll want to announce Spirits Within as well (for silence rotations), but you don't want to announce it every time.
13. Figure out what boss/monster attacks can be stopped by Stun or Silence and stop them whenever you can. If the boss (or monster) doesn't have anything worth Silencing, use Spirits Within every time it's on cooldown because it's a very powerful attack (if you're at full health). Examples of skills you want to interrupt: Ifrit's Eruption skill. The handmaidens (or whatever they're called) in Haukke Manor's Dark Mist attack. Bombs' explosions. Etc. If you want to really prepare for endgame, get interrupt practice in. It's really important in certain content, and it takes practice.
14. When there are melee DPS in your party, don't turn enemies any more than you have to. Some of their attacks require them to be behind or flanking a target. If an enemy uses a frontal AoE on you, move to the side (or run through them) until the AoE indicator goes away, then run right back to where you were. They won't move until they're done their attack, so this will prevent them from spinning.
15. Never pull with Provoke. Okay, let me say that differently. Never pull with JUST Provoke. Provoke sets your aggro on the target to (highest party aggro on target)+1, so if you use it to pull, you generate 1 aggro. The advantage of Provoke-pulling though is that Provoke has about twice the range of Shield Lob. When you need to pull a non-linked enemy out of a group, you can use Provoke to do it from long range, but be sure to use Shield Lob on them when they get in Lob range! Shield Lob causes the same aggro as Savage Blade (x3 modifier), which is much more than Fast Blade, and if you don't Shield Lob your provoked target, your DPS will pull aggro off you with their first attack.
16. Actually, ANY time you use Provoke, follow it up IMMEDIATELY with Savage Blade/RoH if the combo is ready and the target is already in melee range of you, or Shield Lob if you're not in the middle of a combo or the target is at range.

That's... all I got for now.

[tocsin]

Thank you for all the input everyone. All of you have been very helpful.

I have stuck -> marks where some new questions are. the rest is responses. Thank you!

->I am unsure how to make a macro that will mark everything different numbers. the macros that I have made for that just mark each creature as 1 sequentially. does someone have a good example of this?

I play on PC, but use an xbox controller (for carpal tunnel reasons) while tanking. I have had some trouble using more than 8 buttons ]on the crossbar than a single side, but I suppose that just comes with practice. right now I macro fast blade and fight or flight together, so I can remember to use it, and it seems to work pretty well.

->Is there a way to work targeting with controller to things that aren't directly in front of you? I have run into a fair amount of situations where adds spawn from like 3 different directions, and im frantically tabbing thru my targets (holding r2 and tapping r1) to try and find just the one furthest away target while spinning my character around to change look directions. I'm hoping there is a more foolproof way.

I will avoid macroing in chat announces. it seems there is a unanimous agreement in that.

- Mark them all
- Lob on #1
- Flash once per enemy (2 times if there are two enemies, three times if there are three...). It effectively secures aggro, blinds them all, and doesn't boost their blind resistance as long as the 3rd flash goes off less than 6 seconds after the 1st.
- Fast blade on #1 => Savage Blade on #2 => RoH on #1 => Fast Blade on #1 => Savage Blade on #3 => RoH on #1 => Flash => Rinse and repeat

This is actually a very useful rotation! I have been having issues figuring out what to do about AoE threat once my mana runs out, and this helps a lot. Thank you!

->Also, quick shield bash question. If I think an enemy is going to launch a stunnable AoE (ex. Gas Bomb self destruct in Halatali). is it worth it to not use skills to prep, or is there a sign that can be used to tell when to stop comboing and prepare to shield bash the ability away?

Shield Lob causes the same aggro as Savage Blade (x3 modifier), which is much more than Fast Blade,

I never knew that. Thanks!

[ItaruKarin]

->I am unsure how to make a macro that will mark everything different numbers. the macros that I have made for that just mark each creature as 1 sequentially. does someone have a good example of this?

/mk attack <t>
/ac "Target Forward"

This macro puts the lowest number not already used on your target, and switch to the next one. If no number has been used, it'll place a 1 on the target and rotate to the right, and that's it. What I do is that I press it once per mob until I'm back to the first, and they're all marked. Tadam !

Just be careful not to mark a mob passing by behind the first trash group. It can get pretty confusing for the DPS.

[Bixby]

->Is there a way to work targeting with controller to things that aren't directly in front of you? I have run into a fair amount of situations where adds spawn from like 3 different directions, and im frantically tabbing thru my targets (holding r2 and tapping r1) to try and find just the one furthest away target while spinning my character around to change look directions. I'm hoping there is a more foolproof way.

You can let go of the triggers and press left or right on the D-pad. That will target things to your left or right. Might also want to play around with target filter settings. You can have it set to different filters that automatically switch when you draw/sheath your weapon, or to have different manual filters on L1+A/B/X/Y (you can technically set both, but they tend to interfere with each other). You can also hold L1 and press up or down to cycle through the enmity list, if they're already showing up there. It also helps if you can spin your camera enough to get only the target you want on screen. As a general rule, you can't target something you can't see.

->Also, quick shield bash question. If I think an enemy is going to launch a stunnable AoE (ex. Gas Bomb self destruct in Halatali). is it worth it to not use skills to prep, or is there a sign that can be used to tell when to stop comboing and prepare to shield bash the ability away?

If you have threat secured, and it's an AOE that'll hit other people or that you can't get out of, sure. If it's something you can duck out of that won't hit other people, I usually just duck out so I don't have to worry about it. Bombs I sometimes try to stun, but they're not that big a deal either way. You shouldn't have them that close to the ranged players, and most melee either stun themselves or run out by default anyway (and if they don't, that's kinda their fault).

[NorthernLadMSP]

This thread has actually been helpful for me as well. I've never tanked before and am leveling one now. I'm currently at 26 gladiator, and just got Rage of Halone.