Connection Between The Twelve and the Allagan

[treuhavik]

Hey all,

I posed this question in the Las Vegas Lore Panel thread but I'm also curious what thoughts you may have on this. Please, feel free to shatter my confidence in this theory.

In the "End of an Era" trailer we see Bahamut break free of Dalamund, which we now know was constructed by the Allagan. Shortly after, the Scions attempt to recapture Bahamut in another spherical prison.

We're led to believe that the power used to materialize this contraption was of The Twelve, summoned by the Scions. Is this accurate?

If so, had they succeeded in completing the cast, would the prison have been the same as the former, a "Dalamund II" if you will?

Assuming that outcome, is it not safe to assume also that there is a connection between The Twelve and the Allagan?

What can you reveal about this event?

If you'd like an official response on this too, go "like" my post HERE.


What I'm alluding to here is that The Twelve and the Allagan may be one in the same (or at least 12 of them).

I know there are a lot of contradicting theories out there, but is it really all that crazy of me to think that the entire Allagan race, whom disappeared from from the face of the world, was able to become advanced to the point of ascension?

[PArcher]

Your theory sounds like a theory of the Dwarves disappearance in The Elder Scrolls universe...

Though wasn't something about what happened explained during the CT2 storyline?

[treuhavik]

Here's what we know of the Allagan:

During the height of Allagan achievement they created Dalamund.

The power obtained from Bahamut within was too much for the Crystal Tower to contain and caused an earthquake, sinking the tower and all those within.

Amon was alive at this time. He cloned a bunch of dead Allagan, including Archeron, Xande, Scylla, Glasya Labolas, and presumably Doga and Unei, to try and restore their former glory etc. etc.


Are we to assume that EVERYONE other than Amon died during the earthquake? Also, who actually built Dalamund and the spaceships inside? Were there more spaceships that evacuated people during the event? I'm sure there was enough gap in time between the creation of Dalamund and the earthquake for them to escape, with or without their spaceships.


All that aside though, what explanation is there for The Twelve's power creating another Dalamund? It's a stretch, I know. We're missing so many pieces. I just don't see any other logical explanation. Either The Twelve we're/are still Allagan or The Twelve's power was just used to recreate a proven method of containing Bahamut (which would be a pretty lame excuse).

There's just too much potential here for good story. I'd hate to see SE answer it away with an afterthought.

[myahele]

If Eorzean history is to be believed then the 12 should predate the Allagans. Afterall, there have been plenty of other civilization before Allagan came to be its just that they probably advanced so much more than these past civilization.

I may be wrong, but another Kingdom -Meracydia- was able to defend itself against Allagans for a long time. And according to the SMN questline they specialized in summoning but once conquered their summoning (and maybe sealing) arts were assimilated withing Allag.

[Numenor1379]

From what I recall, Bahamut had nothing to do with the earthquake that killed the Allagan Empire. Doesn't the text say "a miscalculation" caused a power surge that triggered the quake?

Amon, Xande, Scylla, etc... were all IN the tower at the time as well. The quest stated that Amon froze time w/in the Tower when it was sinking.

[treuhavik]

I may have wrong information on the tower and the details of it's fall and yes, The Twelve should predate the Allagan.

Why are we seeing one Allag Dalamund and another near, if not, identical Dalamund clearly created by The Twelve and/or their power? That's the question here.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Gaius Van Baelsar compares the twelve to the primals and theorizes that they could be summoned if someone used sufficient crystals. There's even the Little Ala Mhigo arc in the main story line which details a group of refugees who hoped to summon Rhalgar, the Destroyer to use against the Garlean empire. I've noticed that whenever you have a quest in which a primal is summoned with the single exception of Ramuh, the crystals are in fact labeled as "tainted," or "corrupted." which means that they are more akin to Zodiark instead of Hydaelyn, and that it's probably possible to summon a Primal similarly to Ramuh in a fashion where they are more benevolent like Hydaelyn. It's detailed that these corrupted crystals were being provided by the Ascians in order to complete the Ultima Weapon which is what they were going to use in order to bring catastrophe to Eorzea.


It's possible that while some races may revere a primal, it's quite obvious that not all primals consider them worshippers due to what Leviathan did to his priest. This means that it's very possible that a Primal/Eikon are just entities that exist in the Aether, and that the 12 are primals who offer small portions of their power to help the wandering races while they reside in the Aether. If this is true, then the twelve would definitely have pre-dated the Allagan, and the reason for the second seal failing was because Bahamut was only sealed with the combination of both the twelves power and the technology of the Allagan.

[treuhavik]

...and the reason for the second seal failing was because Bahamut was only sealed with the combination of both the twelves power and the technology of the Allagan.

Did you mean to say that the 1st was successful because he was imprisoned by both Allag tech AND power from The Twelve and that the reason the 2nd was unsuccessful was because it was only The Twelve's power attempting to contain him?

It makes sense. I was actually beginning to wonder how the Allag imprisoned Bahamut in the first place. (Like, did they just ask him nicely to sit still while they built Dalamund around him OR was Dalamund a giant Poke-Ball?) With the Allagan supposedly having advanced knowledge in summoning, I could see this as probable. However, without more information, any theory we come up with is just as crazy as the next.

Until someone can dig up some proof either way, I'll stick to mine, if only because it's more fun. If an extra-terrestrial race came by tomorrow and posed as the gods of Norse mythology, we'd never know the difference. So, what's to say it couldn't happen on Hydaelyn?

[Bauti]

If someone did the 2.3 main scenario you would know that the allags built Omega weapon to defeated Bahamut. Maybe they used omega as a way to hold bahamut until Dalamud was finished

[Saikou]

There does seem to be the potential for a game of "history telephone" being played here, but we cannot be certain. Legend states that the gods walked among the spoken races until the first umbral era. There were Allagan Runestones in 1.0 that had the symbols of the gods on them. We infer from this that knowledge and worship of The Twelve dates at least as far back as ancient Allag. We have no commonly known physical objects in game with a connection to the gods that is older than these runestones.

If you're like me, though, you might believe that there is more to the symbols of the gods than just being symbols that represent the gods. They might hold the secrets to magic, arcanima, or something else entirely. Though there is no blatant evidence to suggest this at present, certain truisms in the real world lend credence to these symbols having other meanings before they became associated with The Twelve. Modern Christian holidays, for example, were mapped onto Ancient Pagan ones as Europe of Antiquity was converted to the new faith. Samhain became Halloween, Saturnalia became Christmas, and the list goes on. The closest we can get to a suggestion that our symbols have multiple associations is that the Ixal make use of some of them. We have no obvious answer as to why. Garuda, being fairly capricious, would not tolerate her chosen people worshiping other gods. So the question of a larger implication for these symbols remains unanswered while the slightest hint of greater significance remains.