ATMA nerfing - An addressal to those who object to it.

[Lexiii]

So addressing means insulting, telling them to get over themselves or calling them ignorant is gonna help....

Welcome to the internet?

[DenariusJay]

Just say no to ATMA

[Taliph]

So addressing means insulting, telling them to get over themselves or calling them ignorant is gonna help....

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Alistaire]

So yes, PRNG favours some more than others because of the sequence repeating at times.

There's nowhere near enough fates ending in sequence fast enough for this to occur. Even if it did, it'd just result in 2x the same atma. So it is effectively true RNG because of the time element involved.

And what are you even proposing? Raise the drop rate? That'll still have some people completing faster than others. Remove RNG altogether? It's not worth the time to come up with an alternate method considering the work involved and considering the people that would be put off by it being done.

I could see them raising the % eventually and/or gradually like all other old content seems to get nerfed here, but really that's about it. It's not supposed to be just handed out.

And these threads are still ridiculous, both because of SE's 12-hr challenge a bit ago, and because of how little of a time sink this is compared to the very next step of the process.

[Lemuria]

I agree with the nerfing of Atma myself, and I've already spoken at length in several other topics on why. That being said, making asinine arguments isn't doing much to strengthen our case.

Yes, indeed RNG can be horribly unfair to people. If you're the unlucky one who always gets the 'roll' between the good ones you will never see an atma no matter how much you grind. And yes, having it as an incredibly low drop rate for an item which has zero benefits over Zenith (and needing TWELVE of them) is just bad design. However, insulting those who don't agree with you and making a fool of yourself with backwards logic is not the way to win this war.

The fox didn't get by on looks alone. Cunning wins the day.

[Lexiii]

...

Honestly, I thought this through and there's a very easy solution to the problem. Increase the droprate of atma to 50%. Change the required atma to 16 atma per region. Bam. Atma is fixed.

1) It requires, on average, the exact same amount of effort/time that atma currently does. 400 fates.
2) It allows for the more "casual" playstyle that the relic should be.
3) Players like seeing progress. Grinding for an hour and getting 3 fates > grinding for an hour and getting 0.
4) It almost completely removes RNG from the picture.

Here, I decided to graph it out. I used 1 million samples. Green is 3% chance and 12 atma, violet is 50% chance and 200 atma. http://i.imgur.com/6Yn1Q0w.png Both average out to exactly 400 fates required, but the std deviation is much much lower, it's nearly entirely unlikely you will require more than 500 fates. X axis is # of fates, Y axis is # of times the last atma was gotten on that fate.

[abzoluut]

Can you add a 5th category?

- Those who suffered but don't give info as to how they tried to tackle said content. When they do, they slightly tweak numbers so it favors their claim.

[Lemuria]

Here, I decided to graph it out. I used 1 million samples. Green is 3% chance and 12 atma, violet is 50% chance and 200 atma. http://i.imgur.com/6Yn1Q0w.png Both average out to exactly 400 fates required, but the std deviation is much much lower, it's nearly entirely unlikely you will require more than 500 fates. X axis is # of fates, Y axis is # of times the last atma was gotten on that fate.

Sadly, there are always extreme exceptions. I had around 460 fates completed when I started out grinding atma. When I was finished not only had I completed my 1000 fates achievement but I'd also progressed almost half-way towards my Paragon Robe, nearly 800+ Fates for a mere 12 atmas.

That's really the biggest issue with RNG - not everyone fits nearly inside the same box. I'd be fine with this grind if the weapon was the animus, since at least you'd be getting an upgrade out of the deal. But since it's basically just a renamed Zenith weapon sans-glow, I don't see why anyone is up in arms over making them easier to obtain.

[Alistaire]

Honestly, I thought this through and there's a very easy solution to the problem. Increase the droprate of atma to 50%. Change the required atma to 16 atma per region. Bam. Atma is fixed.

1) It requires, on average, the exact same amount of effort/time that atma currently does. 400 fates.
2) It allows for the more "casual" playstyle that the relic should be.
3) Players like seeing progress. Grinding for an hour and getting 3 fates > grinding for an hour and getting 0.
4) It almost completely removes RNG from the picture.

Here, I decided to graph it out. I used 1 million samples. Green is 3% chance and 12 atma, violet is 50% chance and 200 atma. http://i.imgur.com/6Yn1Q0w.png Both average out to exactly 400 fates required, but the std deviation is much much lower, it's nearly entirely unlikely you will require more than 500 fates. X axis is # of fates, Y axis is # of times the last atma was gotten on that fate.

I kinda like that actually.

[Lexiii]

Sadly, there are always extreme exceptions.

That's the whole point of my change, narrowing the std dev to an acceptable level. As is, 0.23% of players will take more than 800 fates to get their atmas. That's a tiny number, but guess what it is with my change? 0%. I bumped the sample size up to 10 million (from 1 million). Still 0 people took more than 800 fates to get their atma. 20 million? After stressing my CPU running horribly inefficient code for 10 minutes, guess what? Still 0 :P. I understand that statistically speaking it can still happen, but it's so unlikely that it's basically impossible.