Paladin needs an enmity/potency buff.

[Blitzace]

Full str accessoires make a huge difference. If you would switch the roles, the PLD could easily grab aggro.

And btw, your WAR cannot keep up Storm's Path and Eye 100% AND use Butchers Block.

^

This right here, actually saw a full str PLD today and he grabbed hate of a I110 war without a problem(S RANK)

I'm currently full vit and gonna buy some STR accessories this week.

[subteraneanbird]

Fallen hit it right. Berserk is much MUCH weaker due to its horrid uptime. This is why FoF alone is enough for PLD and why it's able to keep up with multiple cooldowns from WAR. To say they're not competitive is flat wrong. They don't do the exact same thing (because obv the two classes play differently) but to see it as a deficiency is wrong. You may see it as an issue that a WAR who won't reign it in can pull off a PLD. But on the flipside over time a PLD will have to stop attacking to prevent pulling off a WAR, because WAR loses time using moves with incredibly low hate generation. Two sides of the same coin.

[SirTaint]

WAR puts out far greater DPS in tanking stance.

They are equal in DPS as OTs, BUT that assumes a WAR MT keeping up SE for the PLD.

For DPS:

MT WAR OT PLD = MT WAR OT WAR >> MT PLD OT WAR >> MT PLD OT PLD

Solo WAR >> Solo PLD

PLD has the short end of the DPS stick, especially since it relies on a WAR debuff to compete. Most of players perceptions of PLD being a superior OT are based on a single T8 parse from a JP group that had the PLD at 350 DPS. Until there is more evidence of PLDs doing 350ish DPS, WARs will have the edge since there are dozens of WAR parses in the 330-350 range on all types of content.

[Alphras]

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.

The only problem with PLD OT is the hate generation, which can be tricky to handle if the OT is going full STR and the MT full VIT.

Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

[subteraneanbird]

It's also worth noting that the insane burst hate war has takes a long time to actually complete (most UBIR rotations are in the realm of 30-40s from start to end. Longer if you are using natural Wrath stacks instead of popping Infuriate) so there are situations where it just doesn't work because you won't have the time to outperform PLD, let alone DPS. It also has a hard 2 minute cooldown (you don't wanna use Berserk w/o Unchained because they won't always line up and Berserk is kinda lackluster otherwise. Internal Release lines up with this schedule naturally) meaning for the rest of the time you're just doing pretty good. Pretty good doesn't always cut it.

I love WAR a lot but it's def not the best at everything and PLD has some key advantages, both mechanically and numerically.

[FallenWings]

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.

The only problem with PLD OT is the hate generation, which can be tricky to handle if the OT is going full STR and the MT full VIT.

Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

Ah the holy grail of maths! My inferior and far less concise maths is essentially a regurgitation of this (my trust in it further strengthened by my own breakdown).

Just don't ever underestimate the power of Sword Oath. 50pot increase may appear small but its impact on total DPS is huge. HUGE I SAY.

One thing that I've always wondered. As an OT WAR DPS, is it ever worth it to Defiance>Infuriate>IB and eat the following 3 shitty GCD's? Turning the following 150, 190/200, 250/270/280 into a 112.5, 142.5/150, 187.5/202.5/210 for a 300 doesn't seem like a good idea.

Sorry for the off-topic post!

[Alphras]

I think it would be better to infuriate -> unchained -> build 5 stacks -> inner beast -> turn off defiance. Don't know if it is worth the hassle, but it should be a dps improvement.

[SirTaint]

PLD OT dps does compete with WAR dps on its own and pulls ahead with Storm's Eye. This was proven again and again.


Edit: And for actual math, this post is still the best source I know of: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2219758

There are so very obvious flaws in his WAR calculations. Specifically the rotation for DPS (which is complex as he acknowledges and the lack of IR and wrath crit bonus)

I have 100s of parses on WAR and PLD. (both i110 just missing HA legs for BiS armor both with i110 weapons) They are very much equal in the OT role and WAR is dominant in the MT role. (as his math says)

I am a PLD main but playing with an equally geared/skilled WAR counter part it is very easy to see the similarities and disparities in their DPS.

[Alphras]

Then please, either fix the math or link your parses (there are plenty at the end of the thread I linked btw).

[Reynhart]

WAR puts out far greater DPS in tanking stance.

They are equal in DPS as OTs, BUT that assumes a WAR MT keeping up SE for the PLD.

I can't say for T8 or T9, but up until T7, a PLD can tank for some time even in Sword Oath. With a little head start to secure aggro with Shield Oath, RoH can keep you above any DPS without the Shield Oath enmity bonus.

For T6, I usually stay in Sword Oath up until Rafflesia eats its first glazed member. Using Sword Oath cripples you far less than a WAR removing Defiance, so your DPS can go higher without killing your role as a tank.