Grinding on the same monster quick and efficiently for the best sp/hr was repetative like a game of hockey. Don't eat til the group is done or if party agrees to take a break. It's not completely mindless, but most people were so well practiced at it that it just appeared to be mindless. Where as had someone who had never played FFXI or a similar class role before would have noooo idea what to do during a grind party in 11. This is where skill came in... Those who lacked in skill hurt the parties overall sp/hr. Dat's whurr teh replay valuez at!! It worked VERY WELL in 11, but the most apparent problem in 11 was not the leveling curve, but the time spent waiting for parties. NOT SAYING I HAD PROBLEMS, but everyone is different, and it seems everyone who tried 11 and didn't like it was fed up w/ logging on and waiting 2-3 hours to party for 1.

There were other problems w/ 11 but they are irrelevant since the game succeeds still today...

I know what OP is trying to say, we shouldn't mimic 11 because nostalgia won't make an MMO survive (in this case 14)... But idk if grinding is the problem either. Doesn't matter what is put into a game; quests, grinding, HNMs, BCNMs, raids, heroics, PVP, whatever it may be. So long as it's fun and scales well (aka, people are still getting better and having fun and noticing positive progress after copious amounts of time spent playing the game), everything else doesn't matter.

As we've seen in 11, PVP can suck balls. But it was fun in WoW? Grinding was fun in 11? But sucked (mediocre at best) in WoW? And I know noooooooooooooo one is going to say PVP in 11 was fun. PVP? Yea it's that thing you do when you play multiplayer FPS. Games LIVE off PVP, games like CS Source. It all just depends on 2 things I listed above (fun and scaling)... How to execute this? Only a game designer would know.

But if an entire game can live off it's PVP factor why not just use the same amount of mechanics to create an equally skillful/well balanced PVP system, as just an ASPECT of a game... Instead of throwing in some horse crap PVP system for the sake of saying, "PVP HAS ARRIVED!". Do the same w/ end game, leveling, storyline, zones, economy, UI, character customization.

Then, people will gladly not only pay money for your game monthly, but people will stop playing other games permanently, just to play your game... Not just the diehard fans.