Challenge vs. reward: turn 5

[Sessurea]

Knowing the fight can be interpreted as watching a youtube video, in regards to T5. You deal with one mechanic at a time, just learn each one, not hard at all to enter this fight "knowing" it.

Or are you suggesting 8 ppl do not watch videos or read guides and try to complete it? Hmm I wonder how many completed T9 that way.

[NoahG]

Knowing the fight can be interpreted as watching a youtube video, in regards to T5.

Watching a video is not knowing the fight, if it was most of the population would have beaten T9 already. Knowing what to expect (watching a video) and actually executing your job (which comes from practice) are two entirely different things.

I watched plenty T5 videos back in the day and it still took me 3 months to be able to beat it (pre-echo days of course). Heck on our first pulls i remember dying to the adds at the beginning, the tanks being one shot by the weak death sentences of the first phases and stuff even though the 8 guys in our party had watched videos.

What im suggesting is forming a group that actually wants to progress and not expect to get a group of 7 pros that carry you through the whole fight. T5 is training for what's to come don't try to skip it, learn it.

[CYoung187]

The biggest challenge with T5 is finding a competent group. One person can ruin the raid. Which is still the case in second coil, there are just much more skilled players attempting 2nd coil.

[Velox]

there are just much more skilled players attempting 2nd coil.

While this was true in the beginning...but I'm starting to see more and more people crop up who blatantly bought their turn 5 wins. Just a couple weeks ago I was pugging turn 7 and ended up in a party with a dragoon who claimed to have gotten the fight down to 10%. He ended up petrifying the tanks 3-4 times before someone decided to kick him. A few days later joined a new party and, lo and behold, the dragoon was there. I /tell the party leader about him and that he might consider removing him from the party. The leader decided to give the dragoon a shot anyway. The first Cursed Voice...he froze the tanks -_- The other healer was really nice about it though and asked him why he didn't turn away for voice. His response? "The tank was standing in the wrong place. I shouldn't have to sacrifice DPS." /facepalm

So yea, people trying to DF turn 7 in a few weeks are going to have a hell of a time trying to learn it with players like this attempting mechanics that cause full party wipes.

[ShiroSteve]

First off, I understand your frustration. My static will sometimes DF T5 with a few spots open and help people through it if they are in fact ready. One thing we've learned is there are a ton of people who think since T5 is old content its easy, and they don't do any research.

I'm curious to know how much time you've spent on the fight though? The reality is it took most of us working with a close knit group 40+ hours to clear twin in 2.0.

Additionally to what everyone else has said here though, if you can't handle watching your focus target for 1 wipe mechanic in T5; second coil will eat you alive. The practice you put into clearing T5 will give you the tools to clear T6.

[Divine_Intervention]

I understand how frustrating it can be, I was stuck on T5 for over a month before switching server. However, I don't agree with nerfing it anymore. People do T5 to get to Second Coil. T5 helps you learn to react to much harder hitting and more unforgiving mechanics, how to deal with things properly as a group, and also develop the patience to wipe repeatedly for hours just for 5% progress on the healthbar.

So yeah, I realise it's a pain, but it ultimately helps out.

[LionKing]

So the problem you have is not because T5 is challenging, yet not rewarding but because you can't find capable people to do T5 with you? Maybe you should start advertise using PF instead of wasting your time queuing in DF. Asking around, shouting, looking for help are a good start. If it is hard, then start making it easier for yourself by you take the initiative. Nothing will ever change if you, yourself don't even give out your best effort to find a solution but rather demand something from someone else (aka, ask for better loot to have easier time finding people). I am pretty confidently sure to tell you this, people won't turn away from you when you ask for help in T5 if you prove yourself worthy enough for their time. It is not hard to find capable people for old contents, it is hard when you don't try and where to look for.

[SummonerSenah]

T5 makes me understand having a static. I just recently started to raid seriously and each time we've tried T5 we've had different people in the group so they end up learning parties instead of clear attempts. I'm pretty good with all the phases up to twisters, but I haven't had enough experience with twisters to pass that phase.

[Zophar]

Endgame by definition is supposed to be content in which you find yourself a guild, ls, fc, w/e of skilled players armed with the goal of bettering themselves in the game. This game is kind in that it allows the casuals a window into this content. But, there are risks involved in this, as there is in any game with any pug content. Endgame is something that the player is supposed to adapt to, not the other way around. This sounds harsh, but it's the truth. And yeah, on the subject of t5, if you can't pass it, you are not ready for second coil.

[Nutz]

I was in a small FC for a while and couldn't clear turn 5 because we lacked the number of skilled players to do it. Eventually I joined up with a very large FC and keep up with my old FC friends through LS (we already had a completely redundant linkshell anyway). It took me way too long to jump ship. Once I did, however, I found that nobody in my old FC cared that I left (I was playing much more often than them) and we still do things together anyway. Now, however, I can immediately ask a group of 300 people if they want to go run something. Not a day passes without somebody asking about running turn 5 or Titan EX or nearly anything else. Tons of people who have completed it before gladly jump in and help others get a clear.

There's virtually no downside to joining a large FC. People pretty much automatically help you because you're part of their group. The biggest downside I've seen is the constant FC chatter can distract me during boss fights sometimes.