Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Pantz]

And that's a bad thing? And it also boils down to situations and preference as well. So what if someone prefers the WAR to the PLD for one type of fight? There are plenty of other battles that they can bring they're PLD into that they'll be of use for. In a game where grinding to level 50 is as easy as breathing, I hardly find it that bad to give classes a more unique skill set that makes them more useful in one fight to another class. If the player can't take about 1 hour out of each day to grind about 5-10 levels for the job they wanna run the place in, then that's their fault, not the player's or the game's design.

Yes.That is a bad thing. Not everyone wants to play all classes. There is no reason to punish them by creating situations where the class they love to play is left out of an instance. Giving a player a choice and forcing them is two different things.

You don't punish players for not playing all classes. You reward them for playing all classes.

You don't punish new players for not having all classes maxed with great gear. You reward those that played long enough to max all classes and have great gear on all of them.

And also, not everyone has the time to play the game every single day. By the time they can grind out each class, they are already going to miss out on a lot of content.

[Scootaloo]

Yes.That is a bad thing. Not everyone wants to play all classes. There is no reason to punish them by creating situations where the class they love to play is left out of an instance. Giving a player a choice and forcing them is two different things.

You don't punish players for not playing all classes. You reward them for playing all classes.

You don't punish new players for not having all classes maxed with great gear. You reward those that played long enough to max all classes and have great gear on all of them.

And also, not everyone has the time to play the game every single day. By the time they can grind out each class, they are already going to miss out on a lot of content.

For starters: How is that punishing them?

It's THEIR CHOICE if they want to level the job or not. If they don't want to grind the job(which is cake to do) then they don't have to, no one is forcing them to. Also, your assuming EVERYONE will have a certain expectation for a certain run, only elitists hold these types of ideals and I pity ANYONE who runs with that lot.

Secondly, no one is expecting every player to have every class maxed out with all the best gear, even as the game is now, I've ran with people who barely have ilvl80 and often less and they do just fine as any other class with ilvl90+. Once again, only elitists have those types of expectations.

Thirdly, sure, not everyone has time to play every single day but its not like if you miss 2-3 days out of the week grinding your job that the ex runs are suddenly going to stop the next. Now if you miss weeks on end and are unable to play most days out of the month, then maybe the player should reconsider where they should put their money since its essentially being wasted.

and even in that scenario, if the player has that little time to do anything to begin with, they're going to miss out on newly released content anyways since they don't have the time to tome grind or dungeon grind for the better gear to survive in most end game content anyways.

[Pantz]

For starters: How is that punishing them?

The fact that they can't join a party just because they don't like playing a certain class or don't have a certain class? Sure they have a choice to level but if you are forcing them to level a certain class just because a certain fight demands that class to be used only, that isn't a choice. That's forcing. And that's punishing.

[Scootaloo]

The fact that they can't join a party just because they don't like playing a certain class or don't have a certain class? Sure they have a choice to level but if you are forcing them to level a certain class just because a certain fight demands that class to be used only, that isn't a choice. That's forcing. And that's punishing.

You're once again assuming EVERYONE will have the same expectations for a certain fight. You can't read the minds of the over 10k players out there and assume each and everyone of them DEMAND a certain class. No one is forcing them. They have the choice, if they choose not to, then they choose not to. SE didn't twist their arm and say "HEY! LEVEL THIS OR YOU CAN'T GET IN HERE!" They can simply enter with their preferred class and run the dungeon with a group who wants their class/job and there will always be people who will prefer the PLD to the WAR and Vise versa.

[Pantz]

You're once again assuming EVERYONE will have the same expectations for a certain fight. You can't read the minds of the over 10k players out there and assume each and everyone of them DEMAND a certain class. No one is forcing them. They have the choice, if they choose not to, then they choose not to. SE didn't twist their arm and say "HEY! LEVEL THIS OR YOU CAN'T GET IN HERE!" They can simply enter with their preferred class and run the dungeon with a group who wants their class/job and there will always be people who will prefer the PLD to the WAR and Vise versa.

You mean that Ramuh pet tank fiasco wasn't telling enough? If people have a way to make a fight easy by excluding a class and requiring another class, you can be sure people are going to enforce it.

I have played enough MMOs to know that if a fight favours a certain class and disadvantages another class, 99% of people are going to enfocre class restrictions, because it makes things easier.

[Scootaloo]

You mean that Ramuh pet tank fiasco wasn't telling enough? If people have a way to make a fight easy by excluding a class and requiring another class, you can be sure people are going to enforce it.

You're relying on assumptions to back up your points and I fail to see how that makes your statement fact.

You can't assume everyone is going to play copycat and REQUIRE the same party line up nor can you assume players will prefer one class over another just because they have a skill that makes them unique.

[Vaara]

You're once again assuming EVERYONE will have the same expectations for a certain fight. You can't read the minds of the over 10k players out there and assume each and everyone of them DEMAND a certain class. No one is forcing them. They have the choice, if they choose not to, then they choose not to. SE didn't twist their arm and say "HEY! LEVEL THIS OR YOU CAN'T GET IN HERE!"

People always take the path of least resistance. Take melee in Garuda Ex when it first came out for example. People watch a strategy on line and then everyone decides it should be done this single way, and then melee DPS get shafted. This should not be encouraged any more than it is already.

Also consider that a lot of gear requires you to single out a specific job to be your "main" (soldiery, relic, coil loot etc). If your job is no good at the new endgame fight that just came out, then there is no longer a chocie.

[Scootaloo]

People always take the path of least resistance.

They do? Oh wait...that's right, WoW players...forgot, silly me.

Take melee in Garuda Ex when it first came out for example. People watch a strategy on line and then everyone decides it should be done this single way, and then melee DPS get shafted. This should not be encouraged any more than it is already.

That's funny, I see melee DPS all the time in Garuda EX runs and they turn out fine usually. Must be on your server only that they do that or something.

Also consider that a lot of gear requires you to single out a specific job to be your "main" (soldiery, relic, coil loot etc). If your job is no good at the new endgame fight that just came out, then there is no longer a choice.

NO ONE is good at content that just comes out, its called a learning curve.

And usually, I can get my fresh level 50 every piece except the pants and body within the first week. and usually the body and pants take a week each to obtain unless I spam PVP runs. So unless the new content runs suddenly go dead zoned within the first month or so of being released, that's not a big issue to begin with.

[Vaara]

They do? Oh wait...that's right, WoW players...forgot, silly me.

Purely human nature, never played WoW, but thanks for showing us your agenda here.

That's funny, I see melee DPS all the time in Garuda EX runs and they turn out fine usually. Must be on your server only that they do that or something.

The key words in my post were "when it first came out." No one cares now because everyone over-gears it and you can survive wicked wheel anyway. When it's new content that people need a clear for, that's when most people try to make things as easy as possible.

NO ONE is good at content that just comes out, its called a learning curve.

And usually, I can get my fresh level 50 every piece except the pants and body within the first week. and usually the body and pants take a week each to obtain unless I spam PVP runs. So unless the new content runs suddenly go dead zoned within the first month or so of being released, that's not a big issue to begin with

None of this is relevant to what I said, unless you are saying you got full soldiery gear except pants and body in a week. Please let me know how you accomplished this.

[Seiryuukishi]

The fights themselves will do the restricting. Main blm? Doing an AOE heavy fight? Be prepared to have your damage gated because of movement. Boss hits like a freight train? Save those defensive cooldowns for the big ones or in the case of warrior comboing alot of storm's path. Monks have to deal with keeping GL3 up as long as possible. Lose it and dps drops significantly. Some fights force you to lose the stacks. Dragoons are jump management. Weaving them properly into combos or using them as the situation dictates with up to 3 minute cooldowns gates them. Summoners have to manage DOTs and pets especially when pet is in obey and has to be positioned. All have pros and cons. Bards are the most situational aware dps because of ballads. They have to stop, cast a ballad, then open fire again. Sometimes in unfavorable conditions. I won't speak for healers.