Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Scootaloo]

In my time playing FFXIV along with keeping track of the live letters and seeing the direction this game is potentially going, it rose several gameplay based concerns of mine.

1. What sets apart one dps class from another besides the names of their skills and the graphics they show?
2. If all tanks get the same line of hate generating skills, what makes the PLD and WAR different beyond their skill names and weapons?
3. How is the sch and whm different from each other if they both heal the same way?
4. If the Novus weapons are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?
5. If the end game raid armors are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?

I asked myself these five questions over and over and I couldn't help but come up with the same troubling answers.

I understand that Yoshi-P wants to make sure no player is pushed away due to being "too weak" or "not having the skill needed" but at the rate we're going, were going to have a bunch of classes with no difference between them outside of the graphics they display when they use their skills.

Yes, each class does have some unique skills and abilities but none of these make them any less valuable or more valuable than any other DPS/tank/healer class.

I could bring a mnk,brd,smn,or drg and I'd be doing the same average DPS I did with any of the other 3.

To further make my point with the DPS, take a look at their skill sets, notice any similarities?

No? Let me point it out for you, each DPS class's skill sets chain into each other. Each skill in the chain does greater dmg until the final skill in the chain usually does the most plus a debuff.

The odd one out is the SMN but even then, its the same thing over and over. Bio,Bio 2,Miasma,Fester, and the occasional Enkindle to make their Igi perform a small burst of dmg every 5 mins.

The key differences between the WAR and PLD is that the WAR gets more HP while the PLD gets more DEF, that's it. They both get an immortality buff, they both have the same type of hate generating skills. In fact, the only difference in how they generate hate is the radius their primary AOE hate generating skills use.

WAR performs a cone AOE while PLD performs a circle AOE around himself. That's it, there is no other difference between the two.

As for the sch and whm, they both get the same types of healing skills with two single differences, the whm gets a full heal skill and stoneskin spell while the sch gets sacred soil(A 10% dmg reduction buff)in a fairly large circular AOE for a short time and a skill that instantly restores 25% of the targets Max HP.

To boil these two down even more, they are essentially the same skills, except the WHM is more MP heavily but heals more in a one-shot and the sch can restore its MP but heals a less and is forced to cast more often.

If you have managed to read this far down than you deserve a cookie.

My point of this entire thread is this:

I personally want some variety in the classes. Something that sets them apart from one another beyond their flashy skill animations. You can still do this and make "every class equal" still.

For example: The PLD could have a buff skill that grants the party a temporary immunity to all dmg for 5 seconds while the war provides an AOE dmg buff that makes the party deal more dmg for 30 seconds.

The sch could have a buff skill that makes their fairy perform an powerful AOE heal while the whm gets a buff skill that grants the party a temporary HP buff that increases their max HP for a short time.

These are just random ideas off the top of my head and are hardly well thought out but my point is that these skills set the classes apart and give them skills that would actually make me stop, think, and ask myself when choosing a healer class:

"Hmm...doing I want the AOE massive heal or the Max HP increase buff?"

For further information, here's a post by Cynric that explains things into ALOT more detail.

Yes I agree with you about the uniqueness among DPS, There isn't much there, at least in terms of game play. Lemme explain what I mean, Dragoon, Monk, and Bard, don't have very much that separates them in terms of play style uniqueness. Bard does Physical damage from far away has slight healer / DPS utility, Dragoon and Monk do basically the same thing from up close. Now while Monk does have a slight difference with having to manage greased lightning and properly position every move, this is pretty average in terms of game play on a DPS class.

Dragoon on the other hand is a very basic MMO DPS class, you have your standard rotation, your advanced rotation and general buff and dot management. A couple of positioning skills and a few skills that root them.

Bard does have a bit more utility than either of those two classes but it's really not what it could have been, which makes it feel more same ish but with less penalties for messing up a DPS rotation.

Now while neither of those classes are extremely unique to each other, they're also extremely basic classes in terms of MMO's. That's kind of what you're missing, Monk is a basic Assassin class archetype, Dragoon is a basic burst DPS class, and Bard is a basic ranged class with some good utility added in.

Some magical ability that only they can use will not change them from being basic. Even with them being basic and the common traits they share, you still have to change your mindset between each job. Monks have to know the encounter to keep GL 3 up and keep downtime from doing damage to a minimum as well as where to pick up on refreshing what when re engaging a boss. You also need reflexes to play either Monk or Dragoon. Dragoon mindset changes to making 100% sure they get that heavy thrust up, which sometimes requires waiting when a boss turns, whereas a monk wont do that, they also have to make sure that when they jump they wont get killed while doing so. Disengaging from a boss inversely doesn't hurt a dragoon as much as a monk so they wont risk life and limb to keep buffs going, as they can refresh them and start over very easily. Bard mindset is even further different, where they worry more about DoT uptime on as many targets as possible as well as monitoring the healer MP, singing Foe depending on composition and singing paeon in longer fights where their melee may be stressed on TP. So a bard will pay more attention to the chat, the party panel, than the AoE circle nowhere near them.

The classes for physical dps may not be super unique between each other due to them being such basic classes for an MMO but they do have to be played very differently. Its not just smack the best rotation and hope for the best.

We go to our Magical DPS now, Black mage is a basic Burst magic class with a cooldown mechanic based into mana regeneration . The fact that in order to keep doing DPS they need to cooldown their damage with a few ticks of recovery makes them play a little different than a normal burst magician class in standard MMOs, makes them decently unique. But they are vastly different than...

Summoner, a basic DoT class with a pet mechanic tacked on as an afterthought.(at least that's what it feels like) This class is super basic in terms of a DoT class, and the pet mechanic doesn't even feel very fleshed out enough to be worth being there. However despite that it is extremely different than a black mage in terms of well, everything. A summoner can even raise party members, adding a different kind of utility black mage(basically pure damage) just doesn't have. That makes the two of them different from each other, and both of these are vastly different from their physical counter parts.

Now for healers. This one is a no brainer.

You have your White Mage, a standard reaction based healing class with quite a bit of AoE damage and healing capabilities , and very little damage mitigation. This class tops you off, regens your health with good HoT's, and saves your life. This is another very basic healing class but it's honestly what I would expect from a class called White Mage.

Then you have Scholar, decent sustain damage, kinda eh healing, but an overall much better pet mechanic feel than summoner. This class wont heal your whole party in same level content like a White Mage can but what it will do is heal one person or a couple of people extremely well compared to white mage, it also has a really good pet mechanic where you can pick and choose what pet you want to run with, then as if all that isn't enough. This class heals you slightly, one person or the whole party, then adds a damage mitigation shield on top of that heal to reduce further damage. Definitely a proactive healer and vastly different than a white mage. A scholar will do much better after knowing the mechanics of a fight where as a white mage can react to things as they come, usually if you have a scholar reacting to things as they come your party is dying. In fact playing a scholar like a white mage and vice versa will probably cause wipes in strong content, or even mediocre content.

Now we've got the tanks.
Paladin is an extremely basic tank, You hit 1-2-3 combo, you use your AoE hate move when you need to, and press a hotkey before a big hit comes. This is a pretty much standard package and isn't wholly unique to MMO's even. I could have imagined better ways for this class to function, but for a class probably meant for players new to tanking. I see why it isn't complicated.

Versus

Warrior, Now this tank here , I wish they could of kept the gameplay more suited to the original style, but Paladins so darn basic tank it was just too Overpowered(ha) compared to the original idea for warriors. However, they still function very differently, a Warrior can pretty much reheal most of the damage they take if they're played properly throughout an encounter, They also have a couple of different combo routes that do different things, something a paladin doesn't get to do. They also have to manage a stacking system and healers have to manage a squishier but higher HP pool. Warriors are a great tanking class that doesn't mitigate very much damage but instead heals it off while mitigating things they just can't heal off. While this class still needs some work, the basic gameplay of this class versus the extremely basic and new player friendly paladin is very different.

And of course it goes without saying that DPS , tanks, and healers are all different from each other as well.

I feel that the sameness you feel comes from the fact that all of the classes are extremely basic versions of staple MMO classes, and don't have a lot of special mechanics or management systems to separate them from each other. But they are in no way vastly similar outside of what their role demands them to do, and they can not be played exactly the same in any way shape or form and expect for you to be performing your role properly.

TL;DR : The classes aren't super unique but they aren't super similar, They're just mostly super basic MMO classes. Nothing special about them in general. A special skill wont change that. The classes actually must "function" differently from the base up in order for them to feel more fun. And for the current classes, without a rework that wont happen. Although if you think scholar and WHM are anything similar, than you don't know how to play one of those jobs right.

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

Just a quick edit but if your going to make posts that either to bash me, to bash other users, or just to potshot my gaming experince, I'll simply ignore your post. Lets be civil and discuss this like mature human beings.