Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[ExponentialDecay]

hello, i am better than you all. what, why aren't you listening to me??!!?!

*poops self*

well, i have better things to do

*leaves to change diaper*

[KhalidTheGreat]

There is only ranged and melee. Damage in this game can be described as generic. And arrow will do as much damage to a soft target, as it will a stone. Same for any other "type" of damage.

Either way it's still your choice. Whatever class you like to play the most is equally important and that's a great thing to have in an mmo.

I loved playing monk in 2.0 but I had to leave it and level a bard instead because, and I quote: "nobody likes monks". I had a hard time getting into AK / WP speedruns just because of my class. Of course that was before the mnk buff and the brd nerf that were made later on.

Same thing with warriors back in 2.0

So for me balance is very important. If a class is unique then that means a dps class that outputs more damage or a tank that has more defense. Which will lead to abandoning some classes and overpopulating others. And that doesn't seem fun to me.

[Sapphic]

I tried to make a thread about a mature debate...starts out well and then every white knight except the paladin three threads down charges in to defend their "Favorite" game.... or are they defending the devs? Oh whatever, point is, I'm done caring about this thread.

You didn't want a debate, as a debate has counters for and against the notion. You just wanted everyone to agree with you. But, seeing as the majority don't you decide to throw a childish tantrum and resort to insults. As this post I quoted (albeit snipped) highlights more glaringly than the Nexus glow.

Just because you cannot see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, neither does the fact that others can see things you don't does not make them wrong either.

So, if you want to debate, grow up and learn to take counter-arguments, then come back.

And to counter your whines, my main MMOs prior to FFXIV were EQ1, SWG (pre CU), and DaoC.

[Mardel]

I'll start with Tanks. While they may seem similar they are much much different in practice. Warrior while having a few skills to lower incoming damage, is a reactive tank. Its all about taking the hit then healing it up after with a much larger pool of hp. Paladin on the other hand is a proactive tank, that has much higher damage reducing cool downs that are easily stacked to reduce incoming damage. This allows the tank to ease the brunt of the damage the healer has to heal. )

Had to fix this but, warrior is proactive as well. Inner Beast gives you a shield, so you need to use it before a big hit. Sch is to warrior as pld is to whm.

[subteraneanbird]

There is only ranged and melee. Damage in this game can be described as generic. And arrow will do as much damage to a soft target, as it will a stone. Same for any other "type" of damage.

As for balance... I don't count that as most important. Making them extremely balanced, removes anything unique in my opinion. And what you are left with, is a Black Mage killing fire elementals with fire. Which is kind of sad when it comes to a Final Fantasy game.

Foe Requiem begs to differ. So does Disembowel, Dragon Kick, and Storm's Eye. You can't say damage types never matter when plenty of T2 wipes were and are still caused by killing the wrong nodes.

[Aegis]

Foe Requiem begs to differ. So does Disembowel, Dragon Kick, and Storm's Eye. You can't say damage types never matter when plenty of T2 wipes were and are still caused by killing the wrong nodes.

We used to have weapons that were, say, 20% piercing 70% Slashing, 10% Blunt, iirc the Macahuitls, for example were Mostly Blunt and Piercing and Daggers were mostly piercing, while the rest of a Gladiator's arsenal were primarily Slashing.

It's a shame that this was never really utilised. Might have made some situations where one weapon was better than another even if it wasn't a higher i-level. But alas, it's far too complicated for us.

[subteraneanbird]

We used to have weapons that were, say, 20% piercing 70% Slashing, 10% Blunt, iirc the Macahuitls, for example were Mostly Blunt and Piercing and Daggers were mostly piercing, while the rest of a Gladiator's arsenal were primarily Slashing.

It's a shame that this was never really utilised. Might have made some situations where one weapon was better than another even if it wasn't a higher i-level. But alas, it's far too complicated for us.

That's kinda cute but it's not a mechanic that I feel meshes well with what this game is aiming for. Keep It Simple Stupid etc. But it's very Dark Souls so I appreciate it conceptually.

[Velhart]

Well I skipped from page 10 to here, but giving my thoughts anyways.

I was a Dragoon till 2.3, and it is a great job with a nice learning curve, but after gearing up and getting good at my MNK, I can't even go back to DRG. I am someone who loves speed in my DPS. It works out for me much better. DRG was great, but to my personal taste, I was not a fan with the amount of DoT/Buff management you had to do (Chaos Thrust, HT buff, Phlebotomize, Disembowel), not managing one of them properly was very bad for your DPS. MNK to me feels less stressful on that. Knowing your rotation and learning to how to properly keep up Greased Lightning 3 in every boss fight is just something more fun to deal with. Like I said, DRG is an awesome job also, but MNK just hit a right note for me.

Anyways, the point from that is, the two feel like completely different jobs. You can't be good at one and if you switch immediately be good at another. There are major differences in performing damage despite both being melee DPS. If all jobs played the same, naturally I should of just known MNK from the second I switched, right? Wrong. I spent so much time practicing on dummies and lower ilvl content to know how to work with it properly, then worked it into the raiding scene, completely replacing my DRG.

OP's post is funny because I knew at least 2-3 pages in it would become a discussion about FFXI or a WoW clone, and no surprise, there was the OP calling out WoW players and praising FFXI's job design. Jobs were fun and unique in FFXI, no one will argue that. The issue is you create an unbalance that ultimately would never get fixed unless you are constantly doing overhauls of the job, which is not fair to developers or players who like the job.

You truly believe that the community will not segregate groups to create the least resistance possible? You think it is an elitist thing excluding jobs to favor fast and efficient? Sorry, its not a MMO thing, it isn't even a gamer thing, its complete human nature to make things as convenient and easy as possible. From the invention of the wheel to the iPhone, people want the least resistance in getting things done. You can't change it, and when people do find a way to make a fight easier like Titan-Egi's on Ramuh, you can guarantee the mass majority of players will use it. Name me how many players actually do what was intended in Turn 5 when Twintania uses her dive bombs. Everyone goes to the sweet spot where she can't hit you.

While the balance in this game isn't perfect by any means, it is definitely one of the most balanced MMO's I have ever played. Ultimately at the end of the day, every job is more than viable for any content, and diversity in groups is actually encouraged in many ways. I have tried out each job to an extent and I can safely agree that each one feels very different from each other. The OP needs to do better research and actual data to support it. If not, it is his ass speaking on his behalf.

[SummonerSenah]

I've leveled all the combat jobs to 50 and used most of them in endgame content as well. I strongly disagree with OP's opinion. Additionally, I played FFXI and I did not play WoW and yet I am offended by the OP insulting WoW players. There's really no need for it.

[Felis]

There is only ranged and melee. Damage in this game can be described as generic. And arrow will do as much damage to a soft target, as it will a stone. Same for any other "type" of damage.

Only physical attack and magical attack share the same stat. Physical defence and magical defense are separated (look at your armor)

People always take the path of least resistance.

They do? Oh wait...that's right, WoW players...forgot, silly me.

How many WoW players played old FF XIV in the year 2011 after Dzemael came ingame?
I say only Orc and Archer stacking