Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[SarcasmMisser]

You ask for a mature discussion while going absolutely hysterical and spamming pony images whenever people disagree. You are the most immature person here.

Also wow is a great game to learn from when it comes to class balance so I'm not sure why being a wow player is a slur, certainly way better than XI lmao.

[RiceisNice]

...

Someone questioned your credibility because you don't have all the classes at capped (and to an extent, I agree, you can't really make fair class comparisons especially when people earlier have debunked the paladin/warrior comparison, which you straight up ignored or dismissed), and you instead berate them for "can't make a good argument". You even asked for people to be mature, yet I'm seeing the exact opposite from the reply above (sarcasm or not, with the amount of hostility you're facing it's not really a good insert at the moment,) as well as your posts lately with all the images and cussing.

Whether you started or not, I don't care, its the fact that you keep provoking it (specifically with that broad statement about WoW players, and I happen to be in that category.) One person apparently pressed your button, and now you're out against anyone that happens to disagree with you, valid points or not.

Cyrnic's post has some points and you pretty much jumped on that. I'm open to people's ideas on it and I've already thrown out my two cents on the whole "make classes more unique" thing, as logn as they actually make legitmate statements in that regard and not lash out at disagreements.

[Dwill]

Knew a potshot relating to my playing FFXI was going to occur at one point, I predicted this many pages ago people.

This is what they are reduced to when they have nothing left to prove their point are are ticked off because of this.

I played FFXI from release to mid Wings of the Goddess and probably at a much higher level of endgame than you did so the issue is not you having played it, it's you thinking you're superior because of it. That is a huge difference, one you couldn't even seem to grasp.

Snip

I agree entirely with this. A nice read for a lot of people.

[Gardes]

TL;DR : The classes aren't super unique but they aren't super similar, They're just mostly super basic MMO classes. Nothing special about them in general.

Sounds about right. Current cross class combinations also doesn't help. All TP using DPS have inner release, b4b, second wind, etc. All MP using DPS have raging and quelling strikes. Biggest issue for me though, with all the different mechanics and small differences, there no current class that I actually really like and want to play and I can only hope that whatever class they add after ninja will be to my liking.

Personally I would also like to see more ways to utilize the same resource (like a super heavy cost TP class that has to constantly manage TP instead of burning TP slowly and hitting invigorate as soon as you 400-500 tp or just burning MP fast and gaining back fast like blm) since new resource 'bars' seem unlikely. Having a special UI for special resources instead of just a numerical buff icon (like wrath and aetherflow) would be nice too. More ways to 'cast' a skill/spell would be nice too. This game doesn't really have a channeled spell, does it?

[RiceisNice]

Personally I would also like to see more ways to utilize the same resource (like a super heavy cost TP class that has to constantly manage TP instead of burning TP slowly and hitting invigorate as soon as you 400-500 tp or just burning MP fast and gaining back fast like blm)

You have to take into account sprinting and the results of that with a class that reliances on huge bursts of TP regeneration. It's not as apparent on casters since they can't really attack on the move, while the classes who can (the TP users) have reliance on TP and can't afford to sprint. Unless that class is also encumbered by cast times with TP...but imo that's just rehashing MP and isn't really anything unique to it. I'd rather see more of something like aetherflow or another stock mechanic.

[Deviant1]

In my time playing FFXIV along with keeping track of the live letters and seeing the direction this game is potentially going, it rose several gameplay based concerns of mine.

1. What sets apart one dps class from another besides the names of their skills and the graphics they show?
2. If all tanks get the same line of hate generating skills, what makes the PLD and WAR different beyond their skill names and weapons?
3. How is the sch and whm different from each other if they both heal the same way?
4. If the Novus weapons are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?
5. If the end game raid armors are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?

1. No real difference
2. War is better for AOE hate and PLD is better for dmg mitigation
3. WHM heal for big numbers by themselves, but suffer from Cure reductions (think infirmity) & movement induced spell interuptions. Sch can heal from Fairy while moving & lustrate.
4. creating spirit bond gear for the materia to complete the novus quest
5. see above

There are only 4 roles in a party, with different vanities. Once you get past that, you realize everything else is just eye candy.

1. Tank
2. Heals
3. Ranged DPS
4. Single target DPS

[Scootaloo]

If you mean people challenging your views and opinions are bashing and derailing your thread

No, I don't mean that. There have been many people who have made valid counter points and I have even acknowledged them. A good example being that each class DOES have its own playstyle.

BUT! This does not mean they are suddenly 100% right and I'm 100% wrong just because they point out a few minor unique qualities in the classes. As a few posters have pointed out, the issue here is that the classes aren't super unique but they aren't super similar, They're just mostly super basic MMO classes. Nothing special about them in general.

That's the WHOLE POINT of this thread, nothing makes them stand out from one another. Each class should have something about them that makes me the player go "oh yeah! I want to be this class because of "Insert skills or passive skills here"

Not, "Do I want to jump around the mob just to deal max dmg, move a few times to deal max dmg, or stand in place and not have to move at all to deal max dmg?"

A point many posters seem to be missing as they keep on pointing out their skills and mechanics instead of looking deeper into the class and attempt to see what makes them stand out from each other.

As much as I hate doing so, I'm going to have to drag FFXI into this topic...

Each job had something about them that made them stand out from their counterparts(this was pre-abby mind you).

White Mage, everyone knew this was the ultimate healer, no class could compare to the healing skills this class had.

Black Mage, the only class in the game capable of using the devastating Ancient Magic.

Blue Mage, the only class in the game that could learn monster skills and use them against others.

Ninja, No class in the game has more evasion than this class and they have the ultimate spell, Utsumi: Ichi and Utsumi: Ni. AKA: Shadows! A Ninjitsu spell that allows to you evade ANY SPELL OR ATTACK.

You seeing the trend here? I just pointed out one thing about every job in FFXI that would make a player want to play that job. They are things that make the class stand out from the others.

Now take a look at FFXIV classes. What do they have that makes them stand out from one another?

See my point yet?

[sammy150105]

Healers rule!! Thought I'd throw that in there :3

[Pantz]

That's the WHOLE POINT of this thread, nothing makes them stand out from one another. Each class should have something about them that makes me the player go "oh yeah! I want to be this class because of "Insert skills or passive skills here"

You are still missing the point. Many people here have already pointed out the problems of making each class too unique.

You brought up something you though was a problem and then proceeded to give a suggestion to solve it. Now, since you brought up a point, others are free to counter it if they disagree. If you read through the posts here, people are attacking your argument on two fronts. First, they are attacking what you brought forth as a problem. Second, they are attacking your suggestions because your suggestion pose some problems.

Now, if you truly believe in your own points and suggestions, persuade us why we are wrong in saying those things.

[Scootaloo]

You are still missing the point. Many people here have already pointed out the problems of making each class too unique.

You brought up something you though was a problem and then proceeded to give a suggestion to solve it. Now, since you brought up a point, others are free to counter it if they disagree. If you read through the posts here, people are attacking your argument on two fronts. First, they are attacking what you brought forth as a problem. Second, they are attacking your suggestions because your suggestion pose some problems.

Now, if you truly believe in your own points and suggestions, persuade us why we are wrong in saying those things.

Firstly, the point of this thread was to bring these issues to light, NOT convince the ENTIRE playerbase that "I'm right, Your wrong, deal with it!*puts on shades*"

Secondly, yes there is a great risk in making classes too unique but if they can pull off an MMO that has stood the test of time for 10+ years and STILL uses PS2 graphics, then I think they are more than capable of finding a balance and doing the same here. No it doesn't need to be a FFXI clone,(Hell, I'd unsub if they did that.)but they do need to give each class something that will make the player look at them and be able to choose a reason WHY they want to play that class, not just trying to decide on HOW they wanna dish out the dmg. Also, I made an edit to my earlier post so feel free to read over it.