Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Bixby]

I'm not so sure it's all about job design. Encounter design plays a significant part in the feeling of flatness, too.

Some of each job's uniqueness gets watered down by encounters not really requiring anything in particular. Back when HM Ifrit wasn't laughably overgeared (and Eruptions hit harder), you could work out a stun rotation if you didn't have a PLD to stunbot. In T1, you got to play around with BRDs & PLDs & MNKs for silencing, depending on what you had.

I'm sure there's some of this going on in Coil 2 now (SMNs kiting? Or something?), but outside of that, almost every encounter is the same. Your role in the fight is encompassed almost entirely by your role in the party list: tanks tank, DPS DPS, healers heal. Everybody dodges. It's sort of a Catch 22 between a lack of unique utility skills and a lack of need for unique utility skills.

[Kiara]

Hi All,

While there are differences between all jobs, I get what Scootaloo is asking on a macro level. Aegis and Bixby bring up some great points, which many of us brought up during Beta (and even back in 1.0 during Yoshi P's takeover):

Because a proactive meat shield and a reactive meat shield are both meat shields. They both have access to an ability that puts you top of the hate list instantly. They both generate threat through a hate rotation, they both have damage reducing abilities, they both have an "oh-shi..." temporary 'invulnerability'. Evasion or debuff tanks are very different animals.

There are no support classes.
There are no gambler classes.
No pure crowd control classes.

Yes, it will mean certain classes are left out for certain content. The trick to dealing with it is a) level more than one class. b) not have one type of content provide the out-and-out BIS equipment.

I'm not so sure it's all about job design. Encounter design plays a significant part in the feeling of flatness, too.

Some of each job's uniqueness gets watered down by encounters not really requiring anything in particular. Back when HM Ifrit wasn't laughably overgeared (and Eruptions hit harder), you could work out a stun rotation if you didn't have a PLD to stunbot. In T1, you got to play around with BRDs & PLDs & MNKs for silencing, depending on what you had.

I'm sure there's some of this going on in Coil 2 now (SMNs kiting?), but outside of that, almost every encounter is the same. Your role in the fight is encompassed almost entirely by your role in the party list: tanks tank, DPS DPS, healers heal. Everybody dodges. It's sort of a Catch 22 between a lack of unique utility skills and a lack of need for unique utility skills.

On a macro level, I definitely see the noble goal that Yoshi P wanted to make sure all Damage Dealers were "balanced" and did the same Damage over the course of a fight (at least that's what he hoped).

But in doing so, if fundamentally every single DD does exactly the same amount of damage, what really sets them apart?

Animations, VFX Flashiness, but on some level they're sort of equalized / homogenized.

For example, the Elemental Wheel: In many Final Fantasies and other RPGs, there is a role where Elements are meaningful (Fire vs. Ice, Lighting, Earth, Wind, Water, etc.), but Yoshi P's reasoning for removing the Elemental Wheel from 2.0 was that he didn't want one class (Black Mage) to be required in a fight or have too much of an advantage.

The irony is that for his desire to ensure a perfect, balanced game, 2.0 STILL ended up with "Tiers" and it's not balanced. Black Mage ended up being the bottom of the barrel for damage and he had to up their damage to make them relevant. And this is AFTER removing a unique aspect (Elemental Wheel) from the game.

Ultimately, is there room for more diversity? Something that really makes each Job standout from each other more (like a Final Fantasy Thief job that does a Sneak Attack + Trick Attack to do massive Backstabbing Damage, and transfers Hate to whatever target they did a SA+TA on?).

Is there room for unique Jobs and totally unique play styles like Cyan from Final Fantasy VI (III on SNES)?
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill7.php


Or Relm (the little artist):
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill12.php


Or a Strago (Blue Mage)? Learning various Enemy attacks and applying them to battles:
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill11.php

Perhaps the diversity or uniqueness comes out in a True Party Combo System that Yoshi P got rid of, like Chrono Trigger's TRIPLE TECH system? Where up to 3 Party Members contribute to a cool, unique devastating attack that's unique depending on the combination of Jobs?

http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Tech

Thanks.