Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Pantz]

Besides, almost every single post here disagrees with you. They bring up the same points I do and disagree with your opinion that the classes are too similar.

I think you're somewhat ignoring the differences that do exist between the jobs and only pointing out the similarities.

That said, the issue with making a job too distinct is there will inevitably be classes that are much better suited to certain fights than others which could lead to jobs being ostracized (very common in FFXI). The way the jobs are tuned now, for better or worse, is much more balanced in that you can essentially do any fight with any combination of jobs. Their are some that are stronger in certain fights than others but never enough, in most cases, to lead to some being excluded.

Just as I said about making classes too distinct.

There is an innate uniqueness to the classes, some of which you have stated. The trouble with "depth" is that it comes at a cost. Paladins have less HP than Warriors but their mitigation is far superior to make up for this. Warriors have nearly double the HP (depending on gear and buffs) but mitigation is lackluster and they hit harder.

I use those as examples and I could delve into Dps, but there is no need. Monks are different than Dragoons, Black Mages than Summoners. You as a player make them unique too. And while options to do so are limited you can play outside the box

What I said about classes already having a lot of difference.

Summoner and Bard abilities do not chain into each other.
Monk does not work the way you describe either, each skill you use after does not always do more damage than the previous, and works with stance changes, not combos. BLM does not either.
Only Dragoon works that way.
I do agree that jobs can be repetitive, since you usually use the same abilities when playing a certain job, and that does not change per fight, but each job does play differently from one another.
Scholar and WHM do play differently as well.

Same thing.

I'll start with Tanks. While they may seem similar they are much much different in practice. Warrior while having a few skills to lower incoming damage, is a reactive tank. Its all about taking the hit then healing it up after with a much larger pool of hp. Paladin on the other hand is a proactive tank, that has much higher damage reducing cool downs that are easily stacked to reduce incoming damage. This allows the tank to ease the brunt of the damage the healer has to heal. They also generate hate and go about dealing damage in different ways. Paladin has the Halone Combo, Flash, and its AOE DoT skill. Warrior has its Butcher's Block combo, Flash, Overpower, and Steel Cyclone; while not being a hate skill itself Steel Cyclone ignores the stance dmg reduction penalty and its shock damage is nice for grabbing threat. I find Paladin to be the safer option when tanking (especially on single targets,) but that with its alternate combos Warrior to be more damaging and able to hold AOE threat better (but also much harder on the healer than Paladin.)


For Healers its pretty much the same thing. They work great in tandem but are specified to a certain niche. White Mage is about reactive healing dropping large amount of hp on others after they've taken damage, while Scholars are proactive healers who try to lessen the damage with shields. While it amounts to the same HPS overall, the play style is quite different. Scholar also has the added benefit of being able to split their attention between more than one player due to the fairy.

Same thing.

Having not played all Jobs to their fullest (You only have four (SCH/PLD/SMN/MNK) of the nine jobs capped,) I really don't think you are one to say how they are different or not. A level 30 job/class plays quite a bit different than a level 50 one. Gear changes play style as well as overall abilities gained. You should perhaps cap the other jobs, and explore more how they are different in mechanics and play style before making anymore decisions there-in.

Same thing.


Sorry, but while giving classes new abilities would be fun, I don't agree on the premise of giving them too much uniqueness (with the reasons I stated before). I also don't agree that the classes are very similar right now, as does almost everyone else in this thread.

[Scootaloo]

The fact that they can't join a party just because they don't like playing a certain class or don't have a certain class? Sure they have a choice to level but if you are forcing them to level a certain class just because a certain fight demands that class to be used only, that isn't a choice. That's forcing. And that's punishing.

You're once again assuming EVERYONE will have the same expectations for a certain fight. You can't read the minds of the over 10k players out there and assume each and everyone of them DEMAND a certain class. No one is forcing them. They have the choice, if they choose not to, then they choose not to. SE didn't twist their arm and say "HEY! LEVEL THIS OR YOU CAN'T GET IN HERE!" They can simply enter with their preferred class and run the dungeon with a group who wants their class/job and there will always be people who will prefer the PLD to the WAR and Vise versa.

[Pantz]

You're once again assuming EVERYONE will have the same expectations for a certain fight. You can't read the minds of the over 10k players out there and assume each and everyone of them DEMAND a certain class. No one is forcing them. They have the choice, if they choose not to, then they choose not to. SE didn't twist their arm and say "HEY! LEVEL THIS OR YOU CAN'T GET IN HERE!" They can simply enter with their preferred class and run the dungeon with a group who wants their class/job and there will always be people who will prefer the PLD to the WAR and Vise versa.

You mean that Ramuh pet tank fiasco wasn't telling enough? If people have a way to make a fight easy by excluding a class and requiring another class, you can be sure people are going to enforce it.

I have played enough MMOs to know that if a fight favours a certain class and disadvantages another class, 99% of people are going to enfocre class restrictions, because it makes things easier.

[Scootaloo]

You mean that Ramuh pet tank fiasco wasn't telling enough? If people have a way to make a fight easy by excluding a class and requiring another class, you can be sure people are going to enforce it.

You're relying on assumptions to back up your points and I fail to see how that makes your statement fact.

You can't assume everyone is going to play copycat and REQUIRE the same party line up nor can you assume players will prefer one class over another just because they have a skill that makes them unique.

[Edli]

Talking about honest question, you have 2 classes at lv50. Why the hell did you feel competent enough as to start this discussion? You came into that conclusion when at lv 20 doing sastasha? How can I take your war pld comparison seriously when your war is 30.

[Scootaloo]

Talking about honest question, you have 2 classes at lv50. Why the hell did you feel competent enough as to start this discussion? You came into that conclusion when at lv 20 doing sastasha? How can I take your war pld comparison seriously when your war is 30.

What profile are you looking at?

And furthermore, just because you can't make a good argument doesn't make it okay to potshot someone's point by attempting to discredit them using their "lack of experience" as an excuse.
Lets not derail this thread please. Be mature.

[Aegis]

Those differences already make a huge difference in playstyle. I don't know why you see more similarities than differences but I have to change my mindset and playstyle by a lot when I play each class. I see a lot more difference than similarities.

Because a proactive meat shield and a reactive meat shield are both meat shields. They both have access to an ability that puts you top of the hate list instantly. They both generate threat through a hate rotation, they both have damage reducing abilities, they both have an "oh-shi..." temporary 'invulnerability'. Evasion or debuff tanks are very different animals.

There are no support classes.
There are no gambler classes.
No pure crowd control classes.

Yes, it will mean certain classes are left out for certain content. The trick to dealing with it is a) level more than one class. b) not have one type of content provide the out-and-out BIS equipment.

[Meshico]

[QUOTE=Aegis;2461651]Because a proactive meat shield and a reactive meat shield are both meat shields. Evasion or debuff tanks are very different animals.

There are no support classes.
There are no gambler classes.
No pure crowd control classes.

This is what I think the OP meant by making things a tad different.

And I do look forward to a different type of tank, but since I know (I really don't) Samurai will be our next tank, it will be very very similar to what we already have.

I will look forward to the tank after that crosses fingers for Evasion tank

-Tari

[Scootaloo]

[QUOTE=Meshico;2461655]

Because a proactive meat shield and a reactive meat shield are both meat shields. Evasion or debuff tanks are very different animals.

There are no support classes.
There are no gambler classes.
No pure crowd control classes.

This is what I think the OP meant by making things a tad different.

And I do look forward to a different type of tank, but since I know (I really don't) Samurai will be our next tank, it will be very very similar to what we already have.

I will look forward to the tank after that crosses fingers for Evasion tank

-Tari

Your on the right track, that's for sure!

I want something that sets classes apart, not these cookie-cutter classes we have right now. As i said before, each of them do have unquie skills and I guess they do even have unique play styles but who gives a flying crap if my mnk if positioned right if I'm dealing the same dmg as the drg beside me? What makes my monk any different than the drg beyond the dmg I'm dishing out? NOTHING.

Nothing makes my monk any different than the drg in terms of dmg output. That's my whole point to this thread. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose praying to god that the Ninja will have something that sets it apart from the other DPS classes.

[Kletian]

Your assessments of the similarities and differences between the classes is totally off base.

Moves that are "similar" between classes aren't the same, they are complimentary- in that using both of them provides a much better effect than using 2 of the same. For Instance, Succor + Medica 2 heals directly for the party, puts up a shield and a Regen effect, the shield gives the regen effect the time it needs to get people out of a danger zone (if the direct heals weren't enough). While Dragoon, Paladin, and Warrior have a basic 1 2 3 attack that gets stronger; the Dragoons does the most damage but doesn't add extra threat. Paladin's applies a Str debuff, and being the highest threat move means it's always up, while the warrior's damage debuff is on a completely different combo that does no extra threat, and competes for time with another combo that lowers enemy defense. Like the Warrior/Unlike the Paladin, the Dragoon will not spam his 1 2 3 combo because he has to manage different debuffs with positional requirements for max effect.