Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[kidvideo]

Summoner, because they literally do everything.

[PArcher]

Yes... one is basically a HP sink, while the other actually defends.

Lol

When played properly, WAR are better tanks than Pld in almost everything. The "problem" with WAR is that they require a really good player to be better than the ones spamming 1-2-3 and occasionally pressing something else. They also are MUCH better OTs than Pld due to their utility (esp their non-aggressive combos).

Find a really good WAR and then see what you think. However...it's like finding a really good DRG, so you'll just keep favoring the job that's much easier to play...

[Scootaloo]

snip

Yes I already know they have these qualities and I suppose mentioning them in the OP would have been a good idea but I saw little point in it at the time.

However, you've simply proven my point further. The facts you've pointed out are merely core mechanics to their class and I'd be shocked and appalled if these weren't included to begin with. Beyond these core mechanics though, what does each class have to offer?

What skill or passive ability makes the Black Mage shine when accompanied by the Summoner?

What skill makes the Monk stand out from the Bard or the Dragoon in the party?

What skill does the white Mage have that makes it stand out next to the Scholar in an 8man party?

Having trouble coming up with an answer?

That's my point.

[Exstal]

Yes I already know they have these qualities and I suppose mentioning them in the OP would have been a good idea but I saw little point in it at the time.

However, you've simply proven my point further. The facts you've pointed out are merely core mechanics to their class and I'd be shocked and appalled if these weren't included to begin with. Beyond these core mechanics though, what does each class have to offer?

What skill or passive ability makes the Black Mage shine when accompanied by the Summoner?

What does it matter who they are accompanied with? That counters your point of uniqueness. Unless you actually mean, "compared to the Summoner". In which I would say, Sleep and Flare.

What skill makes the Monk stand out from the Bard or the Dragoon in the party?

Howling Fist.

What skill does the white Mage have that makes it stand out next to the Scholar in an 8man party?

Medicara, Medica, Curaga.

Oops that's 3.

Having trouble coming up with an answer?

That's my point.

You just proved that you simply have no ability to see anything past your own nose.

[Elven]

You can't play the classes that share similar jobs the same I would have thought that was obvious. Take the tanks for example the war generates a lot of agro just by opening with tomahawk and two overpower and the mob is literally yours all day long because every move he does is hate a few steel cyclones some combos another overpower just for good measure and you can spend your time pulling them through the dungeon to the next mob. A pld has lots of def but you have to constantly keep on top of the aggro list he can hold the hate just fine if managed properly but the mobs will fall off if you're not careful or you don't have flight or fight up for the later dungeons.

[RiceisNice]

Not going to read through the 10 pages, so excuse any repeats...

1. Gameplay. A Dragoon does not go through their rotations the same manner as a monk. They have jumping skills that tie in with their surge cooldowns (which comes at a risk cause of mobility lock), a few positional attacks, and not as big reliance on maintenance (range). Monks have positional bonuses on nearly everything to maximize their damage, work with stances rather than combos and suffer greatly if they can't keep their momentum. Ninjas from what I see have a mix of dragoon's mobility lock on some of their skills and seizure inducing mudras.

In the ranged category, bards play nowhere near similar to either BLM or SMN with their freedom of mobility and well controlled burst damage through cooldowns. SMNs are DoT oriented from what I've seen with reliance on pet, while BLM is more of a traditional caster. Both have different means of maintaining their mana to sustain dps.


2. It's the way they tank and the moveset they have available. You way you label it "beyond their skill names...", you speak as if the skills function in the exact same manner. Overpower is not flash. Warrior has nowhere near the amount of defensive cooldowns Paladins have. Paladin does not have an Off-GCD stun. Aside from that, healing them is a bit different as well. Speaking with a lvl 34 WHM, warrior hp drops a lot faster than paladins, but the high hp does allow for much better value out of stinkskin.

3. They don't. I'm sure people have mentioned it before, WHM heal has more on hp restoration and a damage shield based on the target's max hp, greatly synergizing with warrior's high hp pool. SCH has more access to additional mitigation and barriers based on their magic attack, making it equally effective on the tank regardless of their max hp..

4. The process of getting to novus in the first place (materia, the initial relic quest). If you take crafting completely out of the equation, as in, no player in the entire game has crafting learned, then material would be incredibly slow to flow into the market, and specifically grades III and IV having little to no source at all (you can't buy lvl 45+ equipment from vendors).

5. Read above. Though crafters are acpable of crafting ilvl 90 equipment which is entry-level (myths), and are typically better stats if you use the materia slots. Otherwise, raiding (coils for example) will always be better for tackling what is supposed to be difficult content.

[Ilitsa]

Not sure if this was said or not yet, but whm and sch healing are quite different.

WHM healing is focused in actually -healing- taken damage, where sch healing is more about mitigating said incoming damage and topping it back off

only shielding whm gets is stoneskin (18% max hp of target), and a defensive buff (protect; physical and magic defense)

sch has Galvanize and access to stoneskin (10% max hp when used by sch), sch can also use protect, but they don't give the magic defense boost with it.

As Galvanize, say I heal you with my adloquiem for 1000 hp, you get a shield that blocks 1000 damage, if that crits, that's doubled. I think the best adlo crit I had in T5 (20% echo buff+ full party buff+Eos' healing buff active) was 1780, that gives a 3560 point shield in which the tank took no damage, allowing the whm ample time to get the entire group healed up effortlessly. There is a level of synergy between a good sch and whm, same can be said between DPS and Tank classes when they -work together-

[SulwynCaliope]

What skill does the white Mage have that makes it stand out next to the Scholar in an 8man party?

Even though lots of people have already answered this question, I will too as someone who actually mains a healer in SCoB.


The answer is AoE healing. Succor is TERRIBLE for patching up full parties quickly. Spamming it would only deplete mp very fast. Also while 2 SCH could heal party damage very decently with succor, half the power of succor would effectively be wasted.

SCH, on the other hand, have amazing single target healing and damage mitigation abilities. We can bring back a near dead tank and keep him up in health FAR more effectively than a WHM can. We can also prevent damage in general from being too overwhelming for the party to heal up. While, yes, it does mean it's easier for SCHs to patch up party damage using our weak (compared to WHM) AoE healing, one thing that shouldn't be forgotten is that SCH mitigation isn't stackable at all with itself. SE designed the classes to work TOGETHER to keep the party alive and the way each of these classes does so is VERY different.

Whenever I switch to WHM to play, I have to think about healing in a very different way. As SCH, I have to constantly think about damage that is incoming that I can/ should be mitigating. (Adlo, virus, E4E before big damage) I have to manage my CDs to ensure that I have my mitigation up at the right times. Pet management is also a HUGE aspect of playing SCH at end game. The best SCHs control EVERY SINGLE ACTION that their fairies do. Further more, I can spam heals almost endlessly and never have to worry about MP/ aggro.

WHM spend most of their time REACTING to damage that has already been dealt. Their most effective damage mitigation skill is Stoneskin and it has a long cast time and eats up a TON of MP. Instead of managing CDs like SCHs do, WHMs have aggro and MP management. WHMs, without really trying hard, can rip aggro off a tank if they're not careful. The cost of being able to patch up AoE damage is that these skills use up a lot of MP. Most of the time in dungeons, it's the WHMs crying for Mage's ballad.

TL;DR: To equate the play styles of WHM and SCH is EXTREMELY foolish. It shows how little you know of actually playing the classes. If you spend 5 minutes just comparing the skill sets of each class side by side, you'd quickly realize that there's nothing alike between them.

[Dwill]

Perhaps moving to horizontal progression would be good for the game? Certainly adds longevity for content. When the expansion releases do you believe anyone will do coil anymore? Already no-one does Coil 1 except to access Coil 2. Sky gear was valid for a solid decade. Even though XI had much, much more endgame.

And you don't see anything wrong with having the same pieces of gears for years on end ?

They don't really play differently, though, do they? Get in position, weapon skill. Move into next position, weapon skill. Weave in buffs and off-GCDs when you can. They both have one best rotation, if you're not doing it you're sub-optimal DPS. Yawn.

If you find that boring, then the whole get 100% TP, pop cooldowns and use Weapon Skills style of FFXI must have been a snore fest to you.

Edit: Everyone has a full opener but after that, the rotation becomes a priority system when you have to deal with mechanics.

Yes I already know they have these qualities and I suppose mentioning them in the OP would have been a good idea but I saw little point in it at the time.

However, you've simply proven my point further. The facts you've pointed out are merely core mechanics to their class and I'd be shocked and appalled if these weren't included to begin with. Beyond these core mechanics though, what does each class have to offer?

What skill or passive ability makes the Black Mage shine when accompanied by the Summoner?

What skill makes the Monk stand out from the Bard or the Dragoon in the party?

What skill does the white Mage have that makes it stand out next to the Scholar in an 8man party?

Having trouble coming up with an answer?

That's my point.

Read Extal's reply, it's pretty spot on.

[Shyluv]

All I know is whm and sch definitely aren't the same thing. I love whm. I'm on it 99% of the time. That 1% when I'm not on whm, I don't enjoy as much. I leveled sch thinking I'd love it cause its also a healer. Nope. I hate playing sch. I feel uncomfortable on it.

Also, it's usually the full support jobs that people exclude anyway.