Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Kuroyasha]

The next button you push is usually determined by some kind of timer. BRD feels very different to me just because that's not the case: I don't know for sure which button I'm pushing next until it's almost time to push it.

Bard is full of timers. Wind+Venom Bite, keeping straight shot up, pairing barrage with a buff, keeping flaming arrow on CD, keeping other buffs on cd. That's all timers mixed with a bloodletter proc. Even with the proc, bards still know what button they're going to push well b4hand b/c they pay attention to timers/cds on top of having played it so long (at a high level) that they can "feel" when it's time to restart whatever it is they need to restart. Just with a weaved bloodletter in between. It's not that different from other classes imo.

[Exstal]

To be fair, if someone playing the game can't tell the difference, perhaps they need to be made more different?

It only means they are unable to see what others can see.　That's not a problem of the classes, it's a problem with the observer (OP).

For relevance;

[Bixby]

Bard is full of timers. Wind+Venom Bite, keeping straight shot up, pairing barrage with a buff, keeping flaming arrow on CD, keeping other buffs on cd. That's all timers mixed with a bloodletter proc. Even with the proc, bards still know what button they're going to push well b4hand b/c they pay attention to timers/cds on top of having played it so long (at a high level) that they can "feel" when it's time to restart whatever it is they need to restart. Just with a weaved bloodletter in between. It's not that different from other classes imo.

Fair enough. I haven't been BRDing long enough for it to feel quite that rote yet. BRD's got just two measly procs, and right now, that makes it feel refreshingly different. But assuming I eventually get there, it sort of furthers the point; there's very, very little variation in rotation. Not a huge thing on its own, but it compounds with all the other little areas of predictability and sameness.

[abzoluut]

Would be fun to have more depth to the jobs. Unfortunately Yoshi wants new players to adapt easily which is okay. I don't see why easy jobs should be a result of this mindset. New players would adapt to the depth eventually too.

I still think a huge part of an MMO is mastering a (several) job(s).

I still have hope for 3.0. Please SE, drop 1.0's job remnant. Give yourelf better fundamentals to create (new) jobs without having to think of cross class/attributes which kills 80% of the fun options.

[Leigaon]

1. What sets apart one dps class from another besides the names of their skills and the graphics they show?
2. If all tanks get the same line of hate generating skills, what makes the PLD and WAR different beyond their skill names and weapons?
3. How is the sch and whm different from each other if they both heal the same way?
4. If the Novus weapons are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?
5. If the end game raid armors are so powerful, what use is there for crafters?

So, correct me if I'm wrong but I think from reading your post you're looking at something that keeps them in their roles but at the same time does something that makes them sort of stand out. Your PLD example temp immunity for 5 seconds, vs WAR getting the warcry. Things that give a job more of a "feel" of their jobs?

We will always have equal output from the jobs, the paths of which they do them will begin to vary. What's nice is I think SCH is a step in the right direction..that and I love manual pet management. I would like to see something like pld uses ability, cures to him get spread to nearby players and hate generated from additional cures goes to tank. A warcry feature would be fun, large AOE, something that isn't ground breaking but at the same time you feel "Yup..only I can do that."

My personal opinion is that just because an item has a higher iLV doesn't make it so much more useful. If you're charging up your base stats it is but if you take into account you can add in another whole useful stat and raise that up. But that's just me..so maybe that's the point of crafters. That or make money b/c that stuff sells high!

[SkylerStorm]

The players are what makes them unique. The ones who go above and beyond to master the class. The Bard who will sing for the group rather than just going "geewhiz! look at my numbers!" The White Mage who can make time to throw out an Aero & Aero II in between healing. I could go on but you get the picture.

Yes, the roles are all equal in theory. But it's up to the people playing them to make the most of it.

[Aegis]

We will always have equal output from the jobs, the paths of which they do them will begin to vary.

And that's depressing as hell. It's also not necessary. By determining a role's worth on just one metric you reduce the role to that metric. A DPS will never be anything other than a DPS because you measure it by its DPS. Content then becomes designed around those metrics. When they're designing bosses, they look at how much hps can be done under optimal circumstances, how much dps can be done under optimal circumstances and design the content and tune it to those figures.

It's just so ... sterile.

It means you'll never again see one person solo'ing a god.

[Exstal]

It's just so ... sterile.

It means you'll never again see one person solo'ing a god.

You shouldn't see that while content is still "cutting edge". That means something went wrong.

[NyarukoW]

The OP needs to go heal a brayflox HM full pull with iLevel90 myth gear only on both the WHM and SCH back to back. The differences are dramatic for the player. They both can handle it, but they have to handled very differently. Everyone that did brayflox runs for myth back before 2.3 all knows this. And DPS is not just DPS. The same brayflox HM is a perfect petri dish to demostrate this. You get BLM+BRD you can full pull with massive AOE with triple flares and that foe and mages to keep it going. Try doing the the same with MNK and SMN and it was drastically different, especially if people had stopwatches to measure the time.

The speed runner that didn't understand how team composition changes things up and how gear further alters how things needs to be done, always ended up to wiping the party, and then they get mad and rage quit, because it wasn't doing the same thing they wanted.

[DenariusJay]

I think the end results are all the same is what the OP is trying to get at. Whether you play monk, lance, etc. You can have totally different play styles, totally different tactics, totally different rotations - but at the end of the day, guess what? Everyone doing the same damage, its just different ways of pushing buttons to get there (assuming everyone is evenly geared).

In order to vary this you have to have certain extremes, like for instance, a Tank class that can soak up incredible burst damage but takes more damage from smaller hits, a tank class like this can be useful in boss battles, but will need alot of attention during trash mobs. A DPS class that does incredible burst damage but has practically no sustained damage.This style of DPS would be useful in titan Heart phase and adds phase, but would struggle for the rest of the fight - which then leaves the pre-made group with options: should we bring that dps because we struggle with heart phase? or ditch it cause we need more sustained dps? Those are options and choices that groups would have to discuss and agree upon. But then we run into issues with DF and queing, and getting 4 of those DPS in a group, which could cause some imbalance issues.

The more you start thinking about it and break it down, the more you realize that in order to have more variety the whole combat system and DF mechanics will have to be severely tweaked, I suppose its possible but doubtful this game will last long enough down the road for them to make those types of huge changes.