Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[lvlagmarink]

1. They are really different with each other, you can call it situational.. It's sorta in inverse mechanic.. MNK vs. DRG, BLM vs. SMN..
Monk is situational when you need to dodge aoe which sometime fall on the back of a mob, monks will lose dps in bootshine and truestrike but when monk is on certain form, you can deal DoT and it wont screw the rotation, unlike in dragoon which only need 1 initiate skill to put into position and the rest can be applied from every side, monk can buff attack with rotation while drg need flank side for heavy trust..
Blm has burst ranged attack, unlike summoner which rely in dot.. This will make summoner less useful in mob that needs quick kill like gaol in titan, but being easier in acquiring damage since it's just keeping dot intact..
Bard is just the middle job.. I dont find it's dow support (army paeon) to be really useful, but foe requiem is very useful in giving magical attack buff..

[lvlagmarink]

2. Paladin and warrior dont actually generating same hate as far as i tested it in warrior, uncombo butcher>overpower>flash>tomahawk in term of generating hate.. Then again paladin's def buff reduction from shield oath makes mitigating damage easier, while warrior needs to time up inner beast on large scale attack every 5 wraths for only 5s, but since warrior have access to both overpower and flash, warrior will have easier hate generating..

[lvlagmarink]

3. Whm is old fashioned healer, while scholar is mainly keeping barrier healer..
4 &5. Well equipments are cosmetics~ I meet some people who actually prefer to craft rather than going to raid, and that means this game offer both enjoyment for warlover with peacelover..
So in conclusion, it really depends on the players, there are just some specific jobs which one can be easily mastered, while it's harder to master another.. I'm just better mainly in dow job, because i just like to move around and dont like to see cast time.. And in dungeons, i'd prefer warrior with easy hate generating but would choose paladin for single target raid for easier mitigating damage and party demand. in twintania, if i missed inner beast during death sentence, it would be wrecked without stoneskin and barrier, timing is everything.. But when i'm using paladin, i can even watch and relax the fight.

Tldr.. Screw 1000 chars limit.. I'm gonna post one liner for now on..

[Edli]

Talking about honest question, you have 2 classes at lv50. Why the hell did you feel competent enough as to start this discussion? You came into that conclusion when at lv 20 doing sastasha? How can I take your war pld comparison seriously when your war is 30.

[Scootaloo]

Talking about honest question, you have 2 classes at lv50. Why the hell did you feel competent enough as to start this discussion? You came into that conclusion when at lv 20 doing sastasha? How can I take your war pld comparison seriously when your war is 30.

What profile are you looking at?

And furthermore, just because you can't make a good argument doesn't make it okay to potshot someone's point by attempting to discredit them using their "lack of experience" as an excuse.
Lets not derail this thread please. Be mature.

[Edli]

What profile are you looking at?

Was that supposed to prove me wrong? Yeah you were saying how tanks play the same yet you have the war at 30. How healers play the same yet whm is low lv too and you have only one dps at max lv.

[Scootaloo]

Was that supposed to prove me wrong? Yeah you were saying how tanks play the same yet you have the war at 30. How healers play the same yet whm is low lv too and you have only one dps at max lv.

>Judges my skill and game knowledge based on my class levels.
>Implying he/she's better and knows more

[Kletian]

Your assessments of the similarities and differences between the classes is totally off base.

Moves that are "similar" between classes aren't the same, they are complimentary- in that using both of them provides a much better effect than using 2 of the same. For Instance, Succor + Medica 2 heals directly for the party, puts up a shield and a Regen effect, the shield gives the regen effect the time it needs to get people out of a danger zone (if the direct heals weren't enough). While Dragoon, Paladin, and Warrior have a basic 1 2 3 attack that gets stronger; the Dragoons does the most damage but doesn't add extra threat. Paladin's applies a Str debuff, and being the highest threat move means it's always up, while the warrior's damage debuff is on a completely different combo that does no extra threat, and competes for time with another combo that lowers enemy defense. Like the Warrior/Unlike the Paladin, the Dragoon will not spam his 1 2 3 combo because he has to manage different debuffs with positional requirements for max effect.

[Bixby]

I'm not so sure it's all about job design. Encounter design plays a significant part in the feeling of flatness, too.

Some of each job's uniqueness gets watered down by encounters not really requiring anything in particular. Back when HM Ifrit wasn't laughably overgeared (and Eruptions hit harder), you could work out a stun rotation if you didn't have a PLD to stunbot. In T1, you got to play around with BRDs & PLDs & MNKs for silencing, depending on what you had.

I'm sure there's some of this going on in Coil 2 now (SMNs kiting? Or something?), but outside of that, almost every encounter is the same. Your role in the fight is encompassed almost entirely by your role in the party list: tanks tank, DPS DPS, healers heal. Everybody dodges. It's sort of a Catch 22 between a lack of unique utility skills and a lack of need for unique utility skills.

[Kiara]

Hi All,

While there are differences between all jobs, I get what Scootaloo is asking on a macro level. Aegis and Bixby bring up some great points, which many of us brought up during Beta (and even back in 1.0 during Yoshi P's takeover):

Because a proactive meat shield and a reactive meat shield are both meat shields. They both have access to an ability that puts you top of the hate list instantly. They both generate threat through a hate rotation, they both have damage reducing abilities, they both have an "oh-shi..." temporary 'invulnerability'. Evasion or debuff tanks are very different animals.

There are no support classes.
There are no gambler classes.
No pure crowd control classes.

Yes, it will mean certain classes are left out for certain content. The trick to dealing with it is a) level more than one class. b) not have one type of content provide the out-and-out BIS equipment.

I'm not so sure it's all about job design. Encounter design plays a significant part in the feeling of flatness, too.

Some of each job's uniqueness gets watered down by encounters not really requiring anything in particular. Back when HM Ifrit wasn't laughably overgeared (and Eruptions hit harder), you could work out a stun rotation if you didn't have a PLD to stunbot. In T1, you got to play around with BRDs & PLDs & MNKs for silencing, depending on what you had.

I'm sure there's some of this going on in Coil 2 now (SMNs kiting?), but outside of that, almost every encounter is the same. Your role in the fight is encompassed almost entirely by your role in the party list: tanks tank, DPS DPS, healers heal. Everybody dodges. It's sort of a Catch 22 between a lack of unique utility skills and a lack of need for unique utility skills.

On a macro level, I definitely see the noble goal that Yoshi P wanted to make sure all Damage Dealers were "balanced" and did the same Damage over the course of a fight (at least that's what he hoped).

But in doing so, if fundamentally every single DD does exactly the same amount of damage, what really sets them apart?

Animations, VFX Flashiness, but on some level they're sort of equalized / homogenized.

For example, the Elemental Wheel: In many Final Fantasies and other RPGs, there is a role where Elements are meaningful (Fire vs. Ice, Lighting, Earth, Wind, Water, etc.), but Yoshi P's reasoning for removing the Elemental Wheel from 2.0 was that he didn't want one class (Black Mage) to be required in a fight or have too much of an advantage.

The irony is that for his desire to ensure a perfect, balanced game, 2.0 STILL ended up with "Tiers" and it's not balanced. Black Mage ended up being the bottom of the barrel for damage and he had to up their damage to make them relevant. And this is AFTER removing a unique aspect (Elemental Wheel) from the game.

Ultimately, is there room for more diversity? Something that really makes each Job standout from each other more (like a Final Fantasy Thief job that does a Sneak Attack + Trick Attack to do massive Backstabbing Damage, and transfers Hate to whatever target they did a SA+TA on?).

Is there room for unique Jobs and totally unique play styles like Cyan from Final Fantasy VI (III on SNES)?
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill7.php


Or Relm (the little artist):
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill12.php


Or a Strago (Blue Mage)? Learning various Enemy attacks and applying them to battles:
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/6snesskill11.php

Perhaps the diversity or uniqueness comes out in a True Party Combo System that Yoshi P got rid of, like Chrono Trigger's TRIPLE TECH system? Where up to 3 Party Members contribute to a cool, unique devastating attack that's unique depending on the combination of Jobs?

http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Tech

Thanks.