Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Estevo]

I honestly think the only reason most of our classes are so basic is because they wanted to have a new player friendly job meta for the re launch of the game. Based on what I've seen of Ninja, the original design of Warrior, Scholar, as well as the slightly unique feel of Monk. I'm sure they'll have less basic stuff eventually for our classes. But I'm not going to pretend like I don't see how bare bones our current jobs are. They just need some stuff added to flesh them out. But it wont be a skill, it'd have to be a mechanic that only that class deals with or works with. Like how Monks are separated by GL3, but it has to be more than just a simple buff/attack management IMO.

Also there was plenty of relevant feedback posted throughout this thread, A lot of it I actually echoed in my own post just with a lot more words and big comparison.

Again I agree, and of course there has been some relevant feedback, but if you ask me I can't see it through the huge miasma of hate and insults, to put it figuratively. I just wish people would understand systems change all the time in mmos, or that's how it should be, because mmos that don't change aren't interesting, unless they're literally godlike to begin with (so none,) it's why I don't give feedback that's relevant to the current game systems, because no one except MAYBE the devs know what the game will be like down the road, because deep down we know it won't be the same a year or two from now, and that COULD be a wonderful thing.

I really dislike how people sugarcoat things, honestly I could say a thousand times how much I love the game but if I even say one thing that goes against the current design, I'll get bashed for it, but it's k, that's just how the forums are...

[Nicobo]

...Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

I have thought about your questions seriously.
Sorry to say that I don't see the uniqueness from your examples... ^^;
It looks like just another verison of "different same skills", especially the pld/war example just expanding current skill effect to party members.

For q4and5 about crafters, in ARR the point of crafting is self-sufficient and fun.
It is optional skill of your character and you don't need to craft anything to win any fight. ^^;

[Madoka]

Holy cherry picking and deflection

Let this guy talk to himself or something goddamn

[PArcher]

I was going to make a nice post to try to help the OP...but then the OP decided to start with insults and some of the other classic "I've lost the argument but will never admit it" posting behaviors.

I will say this though...getting only a handful of classes to 50 but calling everything as the same...that's just LOL-worthy. In serious content, you can't play any of the jobs like another. Not unless you're being carried...

Hmm...wonder if the OP has done any serious content at all? Or is ST (which you can definitely AFK and still earn commendations) the top of his mountain? EDIT: Dang, hasn't even done Coil1 at all (not that T1-4 are much more than slightly harder 8-man dungeons now). OP needs to do some of the content where you can't just pretend you're just a "healer" or "DPS" or "tank" and have to learn your job and actually work for your wins.

[CruxisSeptentrion]

In 2 of your posts you've said negative comments towards WoW players making assumptions that are untrue and unfounded. Obviously you have no idea about the history of class homogenization and why it occurs.

I will back up my statements with the fact that I played FFXI for years and then moved to WoW and played it for years before starting up in FFXIV: ARR (I didn't play 1.0 because the beta was so horrifying to me and I was scared).

I started FFXI at the end of CoP and was around level 20 or so when ToAU came out. I still do and will always love the game but there were huge gaping flaws such as the fact that if you weren't a specific job and job combination, you never got invited to anything. Ever. I waited for over 4 hours as a thf for a party in the dunes once, and that was just for a subjob! Then ToAU came out, and I discovered that after level 51, BLM wasn't invited to parties anymore because of colibris, do you remember that?

The community was extremely elitist and wouldn't account for anyone that wasn't exactly what they needed to be. Everyone had to have /nin, nobody wanted a smn, bst, pup, blm, thf, drg (Except in certain circumstances like farming or endgame activities). Do you have any idea how alienating that is for a huge % of the population? Don't forget, this was when it took months to level anything to 75 as well, so as much as it was a huge achievement to get there, the road to 75 could be pretty terrible. It was FAR worse as someone who came into the game late and was playing catch-up for years.

Cut to WoW. Did you know that WoW was based off of Diablo 2's system? Diablo 2's classes had VASTLY unique abilities, and many of the WoW classes reflected that as well. Did you also know that Druids, while designated and originally designed to be raid healers were never invited to anything? Then Burning Crusade came out, and with it a raid that most people required a lot of crowd control but most were undead so they started to invite Priests...eventually Mages weren't invited for anything because they were less effective and got to make food and drink for their parties and then sit out because they couldn't join in unless a group needed them. Near the end of BC a raid called Sunwell was released and thus began the class stacking nightmare of Paladin and Shaman. If you weren't one of those classes you were pretty much SOL for most content unless you had generous friends.

Blizzard saw this trend and over the last 8 years has made buffs and nerfs to the classes over time which has homogenized them for balance purposes so that they're doing generally similar dps. FFXIV has followed a similar path in making sure that players aren't left out of content because their class is useless and had made the resource management/playstyle of the class/job the main focus vs fancy abilities that are unique to every class.

I get where you're coming from, but you need to realize what you're asking for is a step backwards in the MMO genre and there are specific reasons why these classes aren't super unique.

[RiceisNice]

Near the end of BC a raid called Sunwell was released and thus began the class stacking nightmare of Paladin and Shaman. If you weren't one of those classes you were pretty much SOL for most content unless you had generous friends.

Dont you dare speak that instance name here. Sunwell was so bad with the class stacking and the difficulty that resulted from not doing so gated quite a bit of guilds. Want to down M'uru? Hope you don't have more than 2 mages in your party. This is the sort of thing you'd want to avoid in a MMO to avoid ailenating players, and it's very easy for it to happen when classes are incredibly varied and differentiated in regards to what they bring to the table. And even with all the homogenization, the individual classes still play differently down to each of their three specs (fire mages play differently from both frost and arcane, and so on).

[Madoka]

>mlp gif

Abort

[RiceisNice]

...

Someone questioned your credibility because you don't have all the classes at capped (and to an extent, I agree, you can't really make fair class comparisons especially when people earlier have debunked the paladin/warrior comparison, which you straight up ignored or dismissed), and you instead berate them for "can't make a good argument". You even asked for people to be mature, yet I'm seeing the exact opposite from the reply above (sarcasm or not, with the amount of hostility you're facing it's not really a good insert at the moment,) as well as your posts lately with all the images and cussing.

Whether you started or not, I don't care, its the fact that you keep provoking it (specifically with that broad statement about WoW players, and I happen to be in that category.) One person apparently pressed your button, and now you're out against anyone that happens to disagree with you, valid points or not.

Cyrnic's post has some points and you pretty much jumped on that. I'm open to people's ideas on it and I've already thrown out my two cents on the whole "make classes more unique" thing, as logn as they actually make legitmate statements in that regard and not lash out at disagreements.

[Obysuca]

if you weren't a specific job and job combination, you never got invited to anything. Ever. I waited for over 4 hours as a thf for a party in the dunes once, and that was just for a subjob!

>_> Just going to say, I was pup forever. I still got invited to stuff without a problem lol That's what was great about XI and older mmos, if you knew people, you got stuff done. None of this "solo 90% of the game" crap we have now in mmos. Even better is that if you were good at your job, people knew it (since no cross server instance stuff), which increased your chances of being invited even more

Also >_> For anyone who brings up the argument on "waiting hours" for a party. Usually you can solve that by just making your own. Just saying lol

[SarcasmMisser]

You ask for a mature discussion while going absolutely hysterical and spamming pony images whenever people disagree. You are the most immature person here.

Also wow is a great game to learn from when it comes to class balance so I'm not sure why being a wow player is a slur, certainly way better than XI lmao.