Mercy Stroke pretty useless for WAR?

[BrielleBeaudonet]

Helps me get a little extra aggro for full credit in the Hunt.

Moves our group on to a new set of dungeon mobs maybe... half a second faster?

Yeah, it's far from crucial. Probably the least useful WAR skill.

[MythToken]

There is a time when fracture is worth applying. Anytime you have an extended period of not attacking something, specifically Off tanking.

If you know that you are going to leave the main boss to pick up an add, and apply fracture right before, then it would most certainly be worth it, since you would be dealing damage to the add and the main boss at the same time.

Is it a game breaking amount of damage? no

Is it worth breaking a combo for? no. Especially if you are about to pick up an add, it would be ideal to have a loaded combo.
But if you can squeeze a fracture before loading up your combo and going to get the add then it is def better.

So to use fracture properly you must understand the timing of the fight.

As for mercy stroke, you have the ability as a warrior, its worth using. Could the heal be better? yeah. A shield would be nice or a regen tick.
The heal requirement is a little tricky to pull off and the current heal is only marginally useful on trash.

All that being said, none of these abilities are "broken". And fall more under the quality of life improvements.

[BIRDMAN]

im·pede verb
delay or prevent (someone or something) by obstructing them; hinder.

fracture does not delay or prevent enmity by obstructing it. fracture does not hinder enmity gain. whilst the DoT ticks you're gaining enmity. That's on top of any GCD you're using in conjunction with fracture. you lied. I understand it isn't as effective as a butcher block combo, but that statement is you moving the goal posts, covering your tracks.

If you can't fit fracture into your rotation during T9, that's fine- you're playing your warrior how you want to play it. Nevermind Infuriate, or the other two abilities that give/can fill your wrath- you have a rotation that works, you should stick to it.

[BIRDMAN]

Basically your maths are solid but your data is flawed. you claim you've ran rotations, but then you switch from wanting to cycle highest potency/gcd to a precise rotation for one encounter. Furthermore you still have YET to provide any mathematical evidence on storm's eye, all I have is your initial post. Sure, cite the 2.23/gcd that evidently results as a loss since you miss 1 gcd without storm's eye, but potency compared to slashing resistance isn't a constant. Firstly, do you know the slashing resistance of every encounter or are you assuming its 100? Secondly, are you accounting for STR and DET variations in ilvl- these numbers are in flux (with debuffs/buffs), while slash resistance is dependent and unchanging*(unless encounter defensive buffs). Basically, the stronger a WAR gets the more beneficial fracture becomes.

[BIRDMAN]

Also, I don't know what you're running when you test w/fracture w/o fracture, but third party programs are a breach of the terms and service agreement we've both acknowledges and accepted. I suggest you stop if you are using one.

Fracture, as I mentioned from the beginning, is worth using when unleashed and berserked; and if you can manage TP and debuffs then put it up again. In a lot of ways it's the mercy stroke of WAR GCD's, use it when you can.

here's some real math for you(again): 300 potency. Fracture is a tool in a WAR's toolkit, and there is no in loss of potential gain when using it. look at these 5 part samples: Fracture(300)>Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100)>Storm's Eye(270)>Heavy Swing(150) ; Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100)>Storm'sEye(270)>Heavy Swing(150)>Maim(100). The sample with Fracture wins.

[Kuwagami]

A PVP skill that was put into the game before PVP and isn't actually listed with all the PVP skills?
Sacre bleu, mes amis!

Are you aware that the whole game and its classes were designed with PvP in mind from the start ? That's why all the classes are so balanced.


On topic, I don't know if you play WAR often, but Mercy Stroke is a very useful skill in every situation and is really easy to time unless you have a burster in your team (DRG or BLM, choose your plague ;D ). You just have to remember the always-present lag that is present no matter how good your connection is, coming from your partners' action calculations on your own screen. If you hit the button when a mob is at 2%, I can 100% guarantee you you'll never have the heal unless your dps held the mob for you.

[Sleigh]

I think the biggest anti-Fracture, perma-Storm's Eye argument to be made is that Storm's Eye also buffs the other tank (assuming there is another tank), not just the WAR's own rotation. The 27 potency + 10% of an AA or two loss WAR loses in the GCD Storm's Eye drops off could be more like a loss of 10% of Storm's Eye + WAR AA + Rage of Halone + Spirit's Within + Sword Oath AAs from your OT PLD using Fight or Flight, in a worst case scenario.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

If you can't fit fracture into your rotation during T9, that's fine- you're playing your warrior how you want to play it. Nevermind Infuriate, or the other two abilities that give/can fill your wrath- you have a rotation that works, you should stick to it.

LOL @ implying those abilities aren't a critical part of my rotation for T9.

but potency compared to slashing resistance isn't a constant. Firstly, do you know the slashing resistance of every encounter or are you assuming its 100?

As far as I've read and tested, Storm's Eye is somewhere between a 10-11% damage boost (which does not boost DOT damage). NOTE: I did the calculations BELOW assuming storm's eye is 10%; I did PREVIOUS calculations assuming storm's eye was 11%. If you have any data supporting Storm's Eye's (or any "resistance down" debuff's) effectiveness fluctuating against different enemies, please bring it forward.

Also, I don't know what you're running when you test w/fracture w/o fracture, but third party programs are a breach of the terms and service agreement we've both acknowledges and accepted. I suggest you stop if you are using one.

LOL. Dude, I'm literally plugging potency values into Microsoft Excel and calculating the potency/gcd (as well as other metrics). You can leave your tired-ass indignation for parsing programs at the door, because it never has been, AND NEVER WILL BE (as far as I'm concerned), part of this discussion.

You don't seem to understand how to calculate a rotation, so I'm going to post ALL of my relevant data in regards to my argument, since you won't understand it any other way.

hs - Heavy Swing 150 pot; ss - Skull Sunder 200 pot; bb - Butcher's Block 280 pot; m - Maim 190 pot; se - Storm's Eye 270 pot; ib - Inner Beast 400 pot (=300/.75); fr - Fracture 100 pot & 200 dot pot; x- - denotes a GCD where Storm's Eye is not in effect

NOTE: The following values are for comparison within WAR only. That is, these values are not indicative of WAR's true output (for instance, if you compared it to MNK's values). This is because I, for simplicity's sake, eliminated any common factors (namely, Defiance damage%-, Defiance enmity%+, and Maim damage%+)

Rotation #1: Defiance, no Fracture, no Storm's Path, IB as soon as possible, 34 GCDs before repeating.

(hs >m>se) > rotation begins: [hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib>se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se>ib>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m>se->hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m>se-]

base potency: 7800; potency from Storm's Eye: 672; --> Storm's Eye effective bonus to GCDs: 8.62%
total potency: 8472; --> potency/gcd: 249.18
total enmity: 8472 + 2200 (ss bonus) + 6160 (bb bonus) = 16832; --> enmity/gcd: 495.06
se #: 5; se total duration: 75s; --> se uptime: 88.24%
ib#: 4; ib total duration: 24s; --> ib uptime: 28.24%

Rotation #2: Defiance, Fracture, no Storm's Path, IB as soon as possible, 73 GCDs before repeating.

(hs>m>se) > rotation begins: [fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib->se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se>ib>fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m->se->hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m->se->hs>ss>bb>hs>m>ib>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->ib>hs>ss>bb>hs>m>se->fr>hs>ss>ib>bb>hs>m->se->hs>ss>bb>ib>hs>m>se-]

base potency: 17100; potency from Storm's Eye: 1270; --> Storm's Eye effective bonus to GCDs: 7.43%
total potency: 18370; --> potency/gcd: 251.64
total enmity: 18370 + 4400 (ss bonus) + 12320 (bb bonus) = 35090; --> enmity/gcd: 480.68
se #: 10; se total duration: 150s; --> se uptime: 82.19%
ib#: 8; ib total duration: 48s; --> ib uptime: 26.3%

Differences

potency/gcd: 251.64-249.18 = 2.46; --> 2.46/249.18 = 0.99% potency/gcd increase using Rotation #2
enmity/gcd: 495.06-480.68 = 14.38; --> 14.38/480.68 = 2.99% enmity/gcd increase using Rotation #1 -- Tell me again how I'm lying about the effects of Fracture on overall enmity generation.
se uptime: 88.24-82.19 = 6.05; --> 6.05/82.19 = 7.36% greater se uptime using Rotation #1
ib uptime: 28.24-26.3 = 1.94; --> 1.94/26.3 = 7.38% greater ib uptime using Rotation #1 NOTE: slight rounding error, should be nearly equal to SE uptime difference.


I expect that you (or someone) will fire back, saying that these rotations aren't practical, and that nobody adheres to them like this. OF COURSE. The point of this is to illustrate the ideal differences.
Practically speaking, these differences are magnified and diminished depending on the immediate circumstance. A good example is my T9 example: using Fracture would prohibit me from using an extra IB. Not only would I be mitigating significantly less damage, I would also be dealing less damage; what the hell kind of exchange is that?

A good WAR will strive to maximize their Wrath usage, not hold onto it. Ergo, I only use Fracture if I'm absolutely 100% certain that generating more Wrath won't benefit me overall.

The secondary concern is that the loss of Storm's Eye mutes Fracture's DPS increase. If we use the SE uptime figures above, we can estimate the effect on auto-attacks and a PLD co-tank. If we assume a 100 potency AA every 3.5s and a PLD's potency/gcd of 203.33, then we end up with a 0.81 potency/gcd difference in favor of Rotation #2. That's a 0.23% potency/gcd increase.
These are simple calculations, and I will concede that my data collection is far from perfect. I have not factored in the multitude of other buffs, debuffs, and oGCDs at work.

TL;DR MATH. OPPORTUNITY COST. Please, call me a liar again.

[MythToken]

I love the math, but this is a little off topic. I think the point of this thread was mercy stroke. And it has been clearly answered that it is NOT useless.

The OP even stated it when he admitted that it had NO downside. So there you go. Case closed.

(if something has no downside, then it is therefore useful) just so we are clear

[Thistledown]

So yeah, Fracture. Only use it when you don't need to be optimising for enmity (you can treat yourself to better stuff) but it is good for dpsing? Is that what our conclusion is?