Please give us "harder" 4-man's

[Craiger]

I like dungeons being easy - why does everything have to be hardcore? Want hardcore go raid or titan EX in DF...

Titan EX is hardly hardcore anymore... And I don't know about everyone else here, but I want it to be fore mid-core players, not hardcore players... It would also be optional content, so if you didn't want to do it, then you wouldn't have to... I don't really like Raiding either, at least not until I can do it with less serious people and have a fun time... But I don't just wanna do easy dungeons all the time, or do easy hunt grinding.

You casuals got what you want, and the hardcore got what they want, but the big chunk of players in mid-core category doesn't.

[Dwill]

The EX Primals and First Coil are devalued Hardcore content. Not really Mid-Core, but doable because of extreme overgearing and Echo bonuses. Only about 15% of the playerbase can clear T5 making Second Coil far from Mid-Core content.

Second Coil actually does fit the bill and people being unable to clear T5 doesn't change that since that's not a hardcore/casual issue.

T5 will stay a wall even with echo at 50%, only because the fight is filled with tons of OS skill.... the dive, twister, dread, the wall....
this fight was clearly made for be a challenge for good group, however in pug, well... it's another story. the worst it's this fight is not that hard, it's only if one of the 7 other person mess up... it can make the fight a pain.

i really think they need to less rely on dance, enrage, os mechanic for make new challenge.

T5 is not a challenge for a good group, it's a joke as shown by people 4 manning it.

[Alukah]

Extreme and Second Coil actually fit the description about what that "mid-core" group can do.

Second Coil actually does fit the bill and people being unable to clear T5 doesn't change that since that's not a hardcore/casual issue.

T5 is not a challenge for a good group, it's a joke as shown by people 4 manning it.

You're beating a dead horse here, whenever this topic arises you always state that and others disagree with you, I think we should leave it there, you wont change how people perceive coil and you are not willing to change either so... Unless you want to start a pointless discussion.

[silentwindfr]

i haven't said that coil T5 is hard, only that it unforgiving, indeed a good group of player will do it easily. but a good group will probably beat any challenge of the game soo far.
i'm only saying that some people are not perfect and since T5 have a lot of One Shoot skill it can be a wall that can't be passed even in i130 with +50% of echo buff.

ps: i want to give a good example of what i means, take Curtain Call, if you do full critical and miss nothing, all the healing and protective skill are useless, however, some people can't do full critical or even full chain, this skill will make them way easier and they can still pass.
sadly with T5, you don't have another way around, you must do the full critical for get it done. it's not hard, but still some are better than other at follow and execute an exact pattern.

[Meshico]

I have to agree with MOST of what the OP said.

Their should be options to have harder raids, other than just equipping lower gear to make it more challenging. Savage dungeons would be a nice change of pace and it gives hardcore people something to do.

The only part that is where I would disagree is the loot, and such. Because then you are creating a rift, that some people think/agree/know should be there, but the lesser raiders would not like very much.

Even adding a minion as a reward would be rather difficult to deal with right, since then the prices would be crazy and such. A title that would be "hard core raider" would be nice, but if you start giving yourself items...then it would cause a bigger rift than what already exists, and some people wouldn't like it very much. JUST like some people don't like, that they don't like it

-Tari

[Ultimatecalibur]

Second Coil actually does fit the bill and people being unable to clear T5 doesn't change that since that's not a hardcore/casual issue.

3400 people may seem like a lot of people, but it is only 5% of your server population. More than enough to fill your friendslist, blacklist and all 8 linkshells with the names of unique players who have cleared turn 5. Most of the players you play with may have cleared T5, but that does not mean that 50% of the player base can clear it.

T5 is not a challenge for a good group, it's a joke as shown by people 4 manning it.

That only shows that 4 or 5 properly geared i110 characters can equal/exceed the damage/healing capability of an 8 man group in i90.

[Zoeila]

I think AVs difficulty is mainly with the incredibly narrow level and ilevel window it has. There are only be 3 level higher than minumum entry level for the dungeon compared to the 6 levels you can have in every other leveling dungeon. Best average ilevel for the dungeon is also just over i49 and anyone wearing equipment with level requirements of 50 syncs down to roughly i49 NQ.

None of the bosses in it are crazy difficult, you just can't over gear them like you can every other boss in the game.



What is your ilevel? An i70, i80, i90 and i110 Tank will experience completely different things in the Expert dungeons.

ilvl is 99

[RakaMaimhov]

I would love to see truly challenging 4-person content with random mechanics and maybe even random enemies (that vary with each encounter) thrown in. If they were to make something like this a reality though, they would pretty much have to classify it differently somehow from the current 4-person dungeons because everything that is level 50+ is easy-peasy once you are overgeared for it. Look at how some of the level sync pre-50 dungeons can still be challenging because you cannot overgear them.

We don't need yet more hardcore 8-person garbage. 4-person would be nice for a change!

[Moqi]

I like dungeons the way they are. I don't wanna stress over something I'll have to do 1000 times.

[Felis]

I have to agree with MOST of what the OP said.

Their should be options to have harder raids, other than just equipping lower gear to make it more challenging. Savage dungeons would be a nice change of pace and it gives hardcore people something to do.

Another option could be forced ilevel sync like in Fontline. You don't need to equip lower gear this way.