Monk - Ranged "Pulling" Ability

[ElHeggunte]

If Monk gets a ranged move, I want all classes to get a toggle-able flat out 10% damage, deference and speed buff without drawbacks.

Giving everyone a line of Monk auras really would affect balance and class uniqueness. Giving the only class that lacks one an ability (that doesn't even have to do damage) to easily pull mobs from a distance isn't even close to the same thing.

What about fates with bosses that have high hp? In those scenarios monks deal superior damage easily, so while some situations might be slightly harder to handle, other situations are easier, isn't that the point of having different classes?

I'm not really sure how a thread asking for a simple ranged pulling ability has started to derail into arguments and comparisons about DPS. What on earth does high DPS have to do with being able to pull a group of mobs without using your face?

It is not difficult to understand what other people want, but imo it does not fit the job. Throwing your hora/whatever you call the weapons that monk uses would be just silly.

Who said anything about throwing our knuckles? In other games where a Monk had a ranged attack they threw things like Chakrams or had energy-based attacks like Chi Blast. Hell, in 1.0 a lot of classes could throw pebbles. While we're on the subject of being silly, it's just as strange that Dragoons using Piercing Talon throw their spears from up to 15 yard away (the weapon is actually leaving their hands), but they never have to go retrieve it because it immediately reappears back in their hands. The same goes for Paladins and Shield Lob.

Yeah it won't change the balance, but it is an unnecessary step towards that direction that should not be the focus of devs as it will only make the uniqueness worse and would not fix any real problems. Also this is not really the only situation where only one specific job in the game has an disadvantage in certain area of the game. What about the fact that whm becomes completely crippled in longer fights when soloing things like fates, as you are always gonna go oom if you are casting all the time and you only have one skill that restores mana and the restoration is not even that great and it has a decently long cooldown, sure melee can run out of tp but they can still function somewhat relevantly with autoattacks unlike whm who does nothing and most melee even have better restoration skills. blm never runs out of mp and summoner/scholar has aetherflow and energy drain, yet I am not complaining because that shortcoming is a disadvantageous part of the class and should be.

Just like with Surani's post, what on earth does this have to do with wanting a ranged pulling ability? First we managed to get to Monks having high single target damage somehow being a good reason for not having a ranged pulling skill. Now you're on about certain classes (which includes Monk) having to practice resource management more than others as an excuse for Monks not having a ranged pulling ability. I'm curious as to what's going to come next.

Also, as Uninstall mentioned, there is not anything significant in this game that you must solo without your chocobo that would be problematic.

This is an even more ridiculous argument than saying giving Monks a ranged attack would destroy class uniqueness. You could apply the same poor argument to WHM having a hard time soloing lengthy content. "Hey, it's okay that you might OOM, your chocobo can help you dps and tank!", but that doesn't really address the problem. On the same token, you can't send your chocobo to a target and bring it back since it never attacks something that you haven't touched so a Monk would still have to face-pull the mob it wants. Everyone else can still pull from a distance while still enjoying the benefits of a chocobo companion. So like with a WHM going OOM having a chocobo doesn't address the problem of not having a ranged pulling skill.

[Samsta]

I'm not really sure how a thread asking for a simple ranged pulling ability has started to derail into arguments and comparisons about DPS. What on earth does high DPS have to do with being able to pull a group of mobs without using your face?

It has everything to do with it, as I have explained before, since the only this this drawbacks affects is your solo content, and having a high single targets dps makes certain solo content easier, and not having a ranged ability makes certain content harder.

Just like with Surani's post, what on earth does this have to do with wanting a ranged pulling ability? First we managed to get to Monks having high single target damage somehow being a good reason for not having a ranged pulling skill. Now you're on about certain classes (which includes Monk) having to practice resource management more than others as an excuse for Monks not having a ranged pulling ability. I'm curious as to what's going to come next.

You are not really understanding my post that well, I argued against the argument that said that this is the only situation where a certain class only has a disadvantage in a certain area of the game, and I gave an example about other situation. The resource management part was just part of my example.

This is an even more ridiculous argument than saying giving Monks a ranged attack would destroy class uniqueness. You could apply the same poor argument to WHM having a hard time soloing lengthy content. "Hey, it's okay that you might OOM, your chocobo can help you dps and tank!", but that doesn't really address the problem.

Yes, my point was exactly that there is no problem, and whm should not get any relief to it's mana problems, as monk should not get any ranged abilities. Also the chocobo DOES help even when you pull multiple mobs.

[ElHeggunte]

It has everything to do with it, as I have explained before, since the only this this drawbacks affects is your solo content, and having a high single targets dps makes certain solo content easier, and not having a ranged ability makes certain content harder.

It really doesn't. You're also seriously overstating Monk's DPS in solo situations. Yes, well-geared Monk does incredible single target damage when there's someone else controlling the mob and you're able to go through your rotation properly and uninterrupted, but good luck doing much more damage than anyone else when you can't reach the rear or flank (read: whenever you're solo).

You act like Monk blows everyone else out of the water all the time when that's hardly the case, especially when solo. We still do better than some other classes, but it's a wild exaggeration to think that DPS in select group content carries over into everything else.

You are not really understanding my post that well, I argued against the argument that said that this is the only situation where a certain class only has a disadvantage in a certain area of the game, and I gave an example about other situation. The resource management part was just part of my example.

I know what you were getting at, but just like bringing up Monk's DPS it still doesn't have anything to do with wanting a simple ranged pulling ability. It's an apple to oranges comparison.

Yes, my point was exactly that there is no problem, and whm should not get any relief to it's mana problems, as monk should not get any ranged abilities. Also the chocobo DOES help even when you pull multiple mobs.

What? The real problem here is you keep making bad comparisons in an attempt to justify Monk having a tough time pulling mobs. White Mage's resource management and Monk's ranged ability (or rather, the lack of) are both "disadvantages", but it's still comparing apples to oranges. Especially since in a long solo fight where a White Mage might go OOM and Monk is going to run out of TP too, but since you already have wild misconceptions about Monk's gameplay I don't feel like explaining how that's more detrimental to Monk's DPS than you apparently think.

Also, since everyone else can use Chocobos too that's still a poor excuse and another poor comparison. The Chocobo isn't even helpful enough to bring up in the first place, but given the other post he made I'm pretty sure Uninstall was just trying to stir the pot instead of foster actual conversation anyway.

[Rochedalaix]

It has everything to do with it, as I have explained before, since the only this this drawbacks affects is your solo content, and having a high single targets dps makes certain solo content easier, and not having a ranged ability makes certain content harder.



You are not really understanding my post that well, I argued against the argument that said that this is the only situation where a certain class only has a disadvantage in a certain area of the game, and I gave an example about other situation. The resource management part was just part of my example.




Yes, my point was exactly that there is no problem, and whm should not get any relief to it's mana problems, as monk should not get any ranged abilities. Also the chocobo DOES help even when you pull multiple mobs.

Your argument is silly because Monks having low AOE dmg, is the trade off for its high Single Target dmg not having a ranged attack.

[ChaozK]

Your argument is silly because Monks having low AOE dmg, is the trade off for its high Single Target dmg not having a ranged attack.

Surely thats why they buffed BLM single target dps to be almost on par with MNKs.

[Rochedalaix]

Surely thats why they buffed BLM single target dps to be almost on par with MNKs.

And this post has to do with what exactly?

[ChaozK]

And this post has to do with what exactly?

Seriously?

I am going to assume that you are aware that BLM AOE is quite strong. So them having the second best single target dps should make clear that mnks low AOE is not the reason why their single target dps is so high. If it was, BLM would be bottom single target dps.

[Rochedalaix]

Seriously?

I am going to assume that you are aware that BLM AOE is quite strong. So them having the second best single target dps should make clear that mnks low AOE is not the reason why their single target dps is so high. If it was, BLM would be bottom single target dps.

BLM's and MNK's are balanced around different concepts which is why your post has nothing to do with anything.