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  1. #1
    Player
    Aegis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,161
    Character
    Aegis Elisus
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Felis View Post
    Maybe puppets that follow you around?
    We have those. Mammets (there's like 4 of them, I think).

    I'd love to be able to tinker around and customise a puppet to do what I want, play with the AI etc like you could in XI. Like Wellfooled said, I would absolutely ignore my other classes to do so.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,965
    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80

    Rebuilding from scratch

    Okay, so I'll put my money where my mouth is, and as such here is a concept for PUP. Keep in mind that these are the ideals I built my suggestion around:

    - PUP's core concept is that of a melee fighter with a mechanical pet
    - The mechanical pet should have some level of customization options, but should still remain balanced compared to SMN and other future pet jobs
    - The master's actions need to have some sort of connection to the pet

    Since we have a thing for PGL leading to PUP, I'll use that as my base.

    Puppetmaster

    Like in many other parts of the world, the ancient noble houses of Radz-at-han were subject to power plays and concealed plots against each other to gain imperial favor. This unspoken tradition between the houses led to the creative use and placement of agents, spies and assassins as each family observed their would-be adversaries.

    The noble house of Salaheem is best remembered from this period because of their unique employ of spies in the form of meek court jesters and entertainers. Developing their craft while infiltrating the inner circles of the noble houses, these so-called puppetmasters would entertain the crowds at court while extracting information and carrying out orders from their superiors in concealment.

    Though the house of Salaheem eventually fell into ruin after the Fifth Umbral Era, the art cultivated by them has remained alive in the wandering entertainers that roam Hydaelin to this day.

    Mechanics

    Equipping the PUP job crystal places a penalty to STR and attack power. PUP loses Greased Lightning and instead gains the buff Impulse Signal when using their skills. Impulse Signal is consumed when the ability Direct Imput is used, allowing the player to command the mammet to perform a specific action determined by the form the player is in when Direct Imput is used (which means Direct Imput used while in Opo-opo Stance would yield a different ability than DI used while in Coeurl Stance).

    The mammet has its own equipment screen, and the pet bar would show an option to dismiss the mamett, switch modes, and list the abilities the mammet has access to based on the attachments equipped on them.

    Because PUP does not have greased lightning, the goal here is to have the damage split between master and pet make up for that. Keep also in mind that thus PUP is inherently much slower than PGL and MNK.

    Abilities
    30 Activate: Summons your mammet. 7 second cast time.
    30 Direct Imput: Consumes Impulse Signal to command your mammet to perform an action. 5 second cooldown.
    35 Maintenance: Restores 15% of your mammet HP. Channeled ability. 8 seconds.
    40 Distract: Order your mammet to distract target enemy, incapacitating them for 10 seconds (5 in PvP). 45 second cooldown.
    45 Stringing Pummel: Delivers an attack with a total potency of 150. Commands your mammet to perform a special attack. Consumes Impulse Signal. 3 minute cooldown.
    50 Overdrive: Increases damage dealt by your mammet and makes it immune to crowd control abilities. 15 second duration. 6 minute cooldown.

    The Mammet

    Instead of automaton frames, the mammet has two modes the player can switch between. Each is treated as a gear set, and both have their own purpose.

    Valor Edge Mode
    Melee Mammet
    Default Attack: String Clip
    Stringing Pummel Attack: Mighty Scissors
    Can be modified to tank for the PUP while soloing or do melee DPS.

    Stormwaker Mode
    Caster Mammet
    Default Attack: Jolt (2.5 second cast time)
    Stringing Pummel Attack: Burst
    Can be modified to heal the PUP while soloing or focus on doing magic DPS.

    Attachments

    My suggestion for attachments is to segregate them by body part. Mammets can have up to 5 attachments on them at any time. Head, Main Arm, Off-Arm and two Auxiliary attachments. Attachments would be broken down by category to avoid overpowered combinations. In some cases, attachments would have to be locked into specific modes for the same purpose. The following are samples, and I understand they may not be all that balanced, but this is for display purposes.

    Head
    Flash Bulb: Requires Valor Edge Mode. Grants the mammet the ability to cast the spell Flash. Requires Coeurl stance.
    Lightning Rod: Requires Stormwaker Mode. Grants the mammet the ability to increase the potency of the next spell cast. Requires Opo-opo stance.
    Smoke Screen: Grants the mammet the ability to shed enmity. Requires Raptor stance.

    Main Arm
    Heavy-duty Coil: Requires Valor Edge Mode. Grants the mammet use of the ability Heavy Cut on their target. Requires Coeurl Stance.
    Tazer: Requires Stormwaker Mode. Grants the mammet the ability to cast Jolt II. Requires Raptor stance.
    First Aid Kit: Requires Stormwaker Mode. Grants the mammet the ability to cast a healing spell on their master. Requires Opo-opo stance.

    Off-Arm
    Buckler Mounting: Requires Valor Edge Mode. Grants the mammet the ability to block with a shield and use the ability Buckler Swipe.
    Hidden Blade: Grants the mammet the ability to place a bleed effect on its target. Requires Coeurl stance. Requires melee range.
    Poison Dart: Grants the mammet the ability to place a poison effect on its target. Requires Raptor Stance. 20 yalm range.

    Auxiliary 1 & 2
    Coiler: increases skill speed.
    Rewinder: increases spell speed.
    Bright Bulb: Increases enmity generated.
    Stealth Screen: Reduces enmity generated.
    Self-repair Unit: Restores 10% of mammet's health when master uses the ability Second Wind.

    As seen above, head, main arm and off-arm attachments grant abilities. Auxiliary attachments grant bonuses depending on where the player wants to take their mammet. Thus the mammet gets a total of three abilities, not including the mode-specific ability that is only usable when the PUP uses Stringing Pummel.

    ---------------------

    The bottom line with this suggestion is that PUP may be possible but the master would need much more control on their pet in this case. I did think of turning the stance bonuses (raptor, opo-opo, coeurl) into the equivalent of maneuvers, but that creates too drastic a change within the design of pugilist while leaving the mammet to not be that useful since there would be an arbitrary time between its actions. Combine that with the general wonkyness of AI as a whole and there would be some issues in the harder content. Not to mention that I'm already pushing it by getting rid of Greased Lightning. And now, some notes.

    - Something that isn't clear in this suggestion but would like to see implemented would be the mammet having their own ability combos. For example, String Clip is supposed to combo into Heavy Cut, but it's not really illustrated in my suggestion.
    - Something else I was thinking about was having the ability attachments give other things like AoE attacks and so on. Granted, this would mean a PUP with their mammet equipped with AoE attacks would be perfect for speed runs, but I'm not sure if the negatives outweigh the positives in this case.
    - An alternative to having to input commands to the mammet every five seconds would be to have the mammet act on its own like the chocobo, but the ability in question is put on something like a 20 second cooldown when you force the mammet to use it.
    - Since mammet frames are not being used for gameplay, I would want to make the frames more for vanity. Add a leviathan frame, a behemoth frame, an odin frame and so on. At least this way people can personalize their mammets.
    - Going by this, when the mammet is in Valor Edge mode it's right arm is replace by a blade. When in Stormwaker mode the right arm is replaced by an arm extension into a wand or a spiky scepter.
    - Changing mammet attachments outside of the capital cities would put Activate on a 45 second cooldown. Mammet modes and attachments cannot be changed while in combat.
    (1)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  3. #3
    Player
    faris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    U'ldah
    Posts
    594
    Character
    Lunaris Mist
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    I would agree, but the joy of PUP was losing yourself in the job's complexities.

    XIV would murder that by making the job too simple.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player Scootaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    154
    Character
    Scootaloo Dash
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    This won't happen because being unique in an MMO is past trend guys.

    EVERYONE BEING THE SAME IS THE THING FOR MMOS NOW AT DAYS! DIDN'T YA KNOW?!

    I mean just look at FFXIV! Its so awesome that I can't see any major differences between my monk and my dragoon aside from their flashy weapon skill graphics!

    /sarcasm
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    WizardShotTheFood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    81
    Character
    Taba'sae Kason
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Scootaloo View Post
    This won't happen because being unique in an MMO is past trend guys.

    EVERYONE BEING THE SAME IS THE THING FOR MMOS NOW AT DAYS! DIDN'T YA KNOW?!

    I mean just look at FFXIV! Its so awesome that I can't see any major differences between my monk and my dragoon aside from their flashy weapon skill graphics!

    /sarcasm
    Can you please keep the "I don't know how jobs work" idiocy confined to its own thread?
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player Scootaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    154
    Character
    Scootaloo Dash
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by WizardShotTheFood View Post
    Can you please keep the "I don't know how jobs work" idiocy confined to its own thread?
    Can you please keep the "I'm a noob who has no idea what the hell he's talking about" to no thread please?
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by Scootaloo View Post
    Can you please keep the "I'm a noob who has no idea what the hell he's talking about" to no thread please?
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eplay-topic%29

    Now go away.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player Scootaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    154
    Character
    Scootaloo Dash
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by coldreactive View Post


    Treat me like a troll and I'll act like one.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by Scootaloo View Post


    Treat me like a troll and I'll act like one.


    Monty Python needs no magic words.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    ariaandkia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    ilydia is Gridania's Macro Queen
    Posts
    266
    Character
    Ilydia Infinitum
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Sadly, anything where a skilled player has a huge advantage over a less skilled player gets removed, nerfed, or not added.

    I mean, I've solo'ed relic chimera as every combat class currently in the game and despite what some people say, I find classes like DRG actually easier than classes like BRD. After watching the entire party wipe to two different voice attacks almost right away, went in, solo'ed it as a DRG and had no trouble.

    But very likely, if I had made a video or if too many people started to do it, either the classes would get nerfs or chimera would get a buff. Because if a little bit of skill and knowledge allows you to solo Chimera, obviously either the class is too powerful or Chimera is too weak.

    ===

    To be fair, this is partially the fault of the community. "Oh, you are playing a class that nobody knows how to use? /votekick"

    Seriously, go into a bray HM as a monk via DF, party waits until they can kick and boom, kick.

    Because even though MNK has really strong AoEs, most people don't know how to use MNK that way.

    Or try to do brayflox NM as a SCH via DF, half of the parties will kick because SCH can't esuna and it is "impossible to do it without esuna."

    Because even though I've duo'ed the boss with a monk, most people don't know how to heal that way.

    etc.,etc.,etc.
    >.>
    (3)
    Last edited by ariaandkia; 09-25-2014 at 12:19 AM.

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