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  1. #21
    Player
    Fornix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    645
    Character
    Fornix Amygdala
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post
    You make some points, but you're still missing my point about the dungeon difficulty... You say the problem is that people get matched with too geared players, but what about players that are already too geared for it themselves
    As already stated, those players outgeared that content themselves. Either to bypass the gear drops of dungeons through farming e.g. hunts, or by playing higher end content and obtaining gear through there. If players who enjoy just dungeons, stick to just dungeons without taking the easy route, this'd be a non-issue. An iLvL 105 for example is not something obtained through just dungeon gear. Even with tokens gathered throughout the weeks, iLvL 105 is not what will be obtained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edli View Post
    That's not a problem, that's how games work. A player will always find the most efficient way in beating the game, that's what is fun about it. If a game allows the player to easily outgear the biggest part of the game thus making it easy that is the game's fault not the player's fault.
    It's not the game's fault the players are taking on raiding gear to complain about the ease of dungeons. And even though they either keep on failing on raiding content or don't even try, to then still state the endgame content would be too easy. Even with the duration of SCoB having been available, the fraction of players who've cleared it is minimal. Ramuh Ex, same story. The number of players who've even managed to down T6 is relatively minimal. Many PUGs still wipe on T5. Endgame in this game is challenging enough as is.

    Heck, even ST and CT are challenging to many players. It's only for the fact that a lot of endgame players still farm ST which makes it easy, the carry rate is high. Step into CT these days and be in for a wipe-fest session.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    DenariusJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    223
    Character
    Denarius Jay
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    I think the other reason why they eventually lift caps and make good gear easier is because most people at that point need to get there alts up to snuff. Caps and lock-outs make it hard enough to gear 1 class fully, your class of choice. If you had to gear all your classes within those lockouts and caps, it would take an eternity (well , for players that don't have gobs of time) I know some people who still don't have all the top stuff for there main class and have been at for months with coil due to lock out and lame drop rates (running week after week and not getting the drops they need)
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player
    Edli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Edli Papami
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornix View Post

    It's not the game's fault the players are taking on raiding gear to complain about the ease of dungeons.
    What raiding gear are you talking about? Soldiery has been around for ages and you can get it just by doing random crap. Everyone and their mom is already decked out in soldiery gear. Even if we ignore soldiery for whatever reason you still have myth gear which is ridiculously easy to obtain and players already had plenty of it when the dungeons were released.

    The dungeons are already over geared by the player base the moment they were released and the players didn't have to do anything.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    BillyBones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Billy Bones
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    No, I'm not missing 2.0 progression at all. Having to spam CM 50 times to get enough tomes for DL or spamming AK god knows how many times for AF gear is not exactly my idea of fun.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    ajx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    121
    Character
    Faris Dark
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 79
    I remember back then when both dps did not have darklight gear the party would wipe at AK .

    The main reason for this was that progression was gated and gear was hard to get .

    The solution would be either :
    1) introduce ilvl caps
    2) make expert dungeons harder than CT
    (0)

  6. #26
    Player
    Fornix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    645
    Character
    Fornix Amygdala
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Edli View Post
    What raiding gear are you talking about? Soldiery has been around for ages and you can get it just by doing random crap. Everyone and their mom is already decked out in soldiery gear. Even if we ignore soldiery for whatever reason you still have myth gear which is ridiculously easy to obtain and players already had plenty of it when the dungeons were released.

    The dungeons are already over geared by the player base the moment they were released and the players didn't have to do anything.
    Both myth and soldiery are gear pieces which are aimed at providing entry level gear into raiding content. It is not gear which is balanced out for dungeon content. Merely handing out players a natural flow of progression through content and a little extra help for those who need it in raiding. Dungeon gear sets are the ones that drop within the actual dungeons.

    Something which has been standard practise in many MMO's for most of the past decade.
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player
    Edli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Edli Papami
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
    Both myth and soldiery are gear pieces which are aimed at providing entry level gear into raiding content. It is not gear which is balanced out for dungeon content. Merely handing out players a natural flow of progression through content and a little extra help for those who need it in raiding. Dungeon gear sets are the ones that drop within the actual dungeons.
    I don't get what you're trying to say. Doesn't matter where you get it, dungeon or tomes. Gear is gear and both soldiery and myth are better than the i80 that drops on these dungeons. Dungeon gear serves the same purpose as tome gear, to prepare you for harder content. It just doesn't do a good job at it that's all.

    When it comes to progression these dungeons are pointless. They're there only for Sol daily bonus and alexandrite.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Myth Gear is ilvl 90, the expert dungeons introduced in 2.3 are for ilvl80. There's that problem with people being over geared for the dungeons as soon as it's released and for the most part it ends up being a steamroll. What's to expect out of the 2.4 dungeons, ilvl 90? If the end result is trying to gear up for raiding content (ilvl90), then the new dungeons don't really do a good job because of it because we're so saturated in myth tomes from hunts, and seem really pointless when that can get you ilvl90.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player
    Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    747
    Character
    Atiqa Craiger
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
    As already stated, those players outgeared that content themselves. Either to bypass the gear drops of dungeons through farming e.g. hunts, or by playing higher end content and obtaining gear through there. If players who enjoy just dungeons, stick to just dungeons without taking the easy route, this'd be a non-issue. An iLvL 105 for example is not something obtained through just dungeon gear. Even with tokens gathered throughout the weeks, iLvL 105 is not what will be obtained.



    It's not the game's fault the players are taking on raiding gear to complain about the ease of dungeons. And even though they either keep on failing on raiding content or don't even try, to then still state the endgame content would be too easy. Even with the duration of SCoB having been available, the fraction of players who've cleared it is minimal. Ramuh Ex, same story. The number of players who've even managed to down T6 is relatively minimal. Many PUGs still wipe on T5. Endgame in this game is challenging enough as is.

    Heck, even ST and CT are challenging to many players. It's only for the fact that a lot of endgame players still farm ST which makes it easy, the carry rate is high. Step into CT these days and be in for a wipe-fest session.
    Wait what?!

    Are you seriously saying that the game should be split in 2, 1 part for raiders and 1 part for "only dungeon players"? What game do you think this? Should I just do dungeons and only use dungeon gear, and then wait for the next patch to get dungeon gear there? I would have to ignore the tomes I get, cause I would still be steamrolling the dungeons if I get gear from that... and I wouldn't be able to do the primals, hunts or Relic quest, cause that would make me steamroll it. Effectively I would be playing a small percentage of the game.

    Do you take me for some super casual, who can only play 1-2 hours a week or something?

    If you only come in and do your weekly raid each week, why are you playing the game in the first place? It's only once per week... There are a ton of other content to do in the game too, and that content should be fun to do even if you have good enough gear to do raids. Since you have good enough gear for raids as soon as the patch releases, do you just leave the dungeons and all other content behind, and just do the weekly raid? That sounds like exactly the thing that made hardcore players leave in 2.0...

    EDIT: Also, ST is hard? Are you looking down on players like me? It's not easy cause I have highly geared players carrying me, it's easy cause the mechanics of the fight is really really easy... Just because I don't like being in a static and being first to down the raids, doesn't mean I couldn't do it if I wanted...
    (0)
    Last edited by Craiger; 09-23-2014 at 08:04 PM.

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