Attention devs: Game Surveillance Unit re: open world Bots.

[SalemP]

Now on a possibly positive note, the group of Lalas that were on my server have not been seen since 2.4. idk if it's bc of the patch, though I imagine the account runner would have made sure his bots were up and running again. Possibly banned? I can only hope, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

I spoke too soon.

[zer0patches]

So your mad why?

Cause the bots that you notice didn't get banned and would have gotten replaced instantly anyway even if they were?

The bots these were turning in materials and money to were banned but you don't know that because SE doesn't advertise names for liability reasons because of privacy concerns and potential to be sued for negligence if they make a mistake?

Gold buyers now have to pay more money for gold due to less availability?

What, please explain????

I spoke too soon.

[ToffeeCoffee]

Lower Limsa X6 Y12
Bots with their spiritbond gear crafter.

[MStowastiqVahlshdeh]

--snip--

I'd like to know more information on this tbqh. I see the numbers, but then why are the same bots that have been reported over and over by several people still running around? What does a bot/account have to do to qualify for banning? Simply botting obviously isn't enough as we can clearly see from this thread. I had a group of bots that I know for a fact were reported by several people (it was discussed in "shout"), and still were there weeks later.--snip--

I have no idea how long or what process of criteria to qualify or they go through when they ban or suspend some one for botting or what policies they use other than the ones in the TOS agreement.

I do know from hearing GM's say so, that it takes investigating each individual account no matter the outward appearance because they have protocol to follow that likely allows each account to be proven a violator vs one that is not but may have been reported as one. According to the TOS there is no kind of botting or absentee play or 3rd party tool use of any kind allowed. Just because people may think it is no big deal in this thread or appear not to care, is not an indication of the actual rules so please check the TOS itself for actual detail on their rules.

My point in posting the ban stats was to emphasize that they post up reports three times a month and that they consider it important enough to enforce as well as offer us the options to report it if we see it, that the OP's concerns are legitimate. What I cannot answer is how long or how many are left behind each wave of bans/suspensions, how long it takes to ban a reported account.

[ToffeeCoffee]

I have no idea how long or what process of criteria to qualify or they go through when they ban or suspend some one for botting or what policies they use other than the ones in the TOS agreement.

I do know from hearing GM's say so, that it takes investigating each individual account no matter the outward appearance because they have protocol to follow that likely allows each account to be proven a violator vs one that is not but may have been reported as one. According to the TOS there is no kind of botting or absentee play or 3rd party tool use of any kind allowed. Just because people may think it is no big deal in this thread or appear not to care, is not an indication of the actual rules so please check the TOS itself for actual detail on their rules.

My point in posting the ban stats was to emphasize that they post up reports three times a month and that they consider it important enough to enforce as well as offer us the options to report it if we see it, that the OP's concerns are legitimate. What I cannot answer is how long or how many are left behind each wave of bans/suspensions, how long it takes to ban a reported account.

I'm going on 4+ months of reporting the same bots daily and no action has been taken. I think the first time I saw and reported them was more like 6 months ago, and when I found them botting in a new location I was surprised they hadn't been banned yet. I'd report bots in Aion and get overnight responses saying thank you, bot confirmed and removed. It has since dawned on me that open world bot reports do not get actioned at all.

There is a break in the chain somewhere, I was asked to create this thread to highlight this issue so the devs can become aware of the problem and take some form of action. This is what is taking the most time. Even the guy controlling the bots told me in /tell to "hold the your breath". All we can do is keep the issue in the spotlight so it doesn't go back to being ignored.

If a CM would at least say the issue is receiving some serious attention, we could focus on playing the game instead of posting screenshots of nameless bots on the forums.

[MStowastiqVahlshdeh]

--snip--

There is a break in the chain somewhere, I was asked to create this thread to highlight this issue so the devs can become aware of the problem and take some form of action. This is what is taking the most time. Even the guy controlling the bots told me in /tell to "hold the your breath". All we can do is keep the issue in the spotlight so it doesn't go back to being ignored.

If a CM would at least say the issue is receiving some serious attention, we could focus on playing the game instead of posting screenshots of nameless bots on the forums.

I am probably hardened [read: excessively persistent] and patient due to being around since xi before arr was borne and remembering how it was reporting bots back then but, yep I agree that was the best thing to do in posting the thread to let it be known and just hope the CM's see it. And enjoy the game in the mean time .

[SalemP]

Even the guy controlling the bots told me in /tell to "hold the your breath".

You should have posted a screenshot of that too :P

[zer0patches]

Where did I say I supported botting? I said banning bots will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue except make some that need to see 'action' feel better. I said to follow the money.

SE does take action but banning the open world bots will not do anything but spawn more bots. Likely it is couriers & advertisers banned which you never see in the open world. Depending on the software being utilized it is much easier to catch some bots than others through automated detection routines. Player reports are the least effective means of bot detection and typically a waste of administrative resources. People tend to have personal motivations for reporting others and dealing with 'he said she said' is a waste of time and money when you could put that towards developing better detection algorithms.

I feel bad for SE because no matter what they do about a problem that is never going to go away there are always going to be dissenters that want to gripe that not enough is being done.

[SalemP]

Where did I say I supported botting?

You said that banning bots might do more harm than good, and claimed that it stimulates an economy (which certainly sounds like a good thing). You also claimed that some people "enjoy the abundance of cheaper" items, which to be fair is not untrue. However, you didn't include yourself in that, so I misremembered the exact statement you made. Sounds to me like you see a lot of benefit in bots. But perhaps I was mistaken in saying you support them, so my apologies. Though one could argue that doing nothing (as you seem to suggest) IS the same as supporting.

Player reports are the least effective means of bot detection and typically a waste of administrative resources. People tend to have personal motivations for reporting others and dealing with 'he said she said' is a waste of time and money when you could put that towards developing better detection algorithms.

If reporting is actually detrimental, then why bother having it there at all? I can't speak for everyone, but I don't have anything personal against these bots. I don't even know the person who runs them, nor have they directly insulted me or hurt me. I mean, I don't disagree with you that buyers & sellers of gil are a problem. But the bots support the RMTs. They don't get their gil out of thin air.

I feel bad for SE because no matter what they do about a problem that is never going to go away there are always going to be dissenters that want to gripe that not enough is being done.

Feel bad for them?? Wow what an angel you are, god bless. I mean, the nerve of the people to complain about blatant cheating in a game they pay good money for. Poor poor SE drying their tears with my money.

Making a couple of posts about bots makes me a "dissenter"? Do I expect SE to play God and make the impossible possible? No. But as long as there's a problem, why should I be silent about it? I could argue that as long as a problem exists, they AREN'T doing enough about it. At what point is it ok to say, well this is an acceptable amount of cheating, let's just leave it here and not do any more about it? Even if they do everything they can to eliminate bots/RMTs, as long as they still exist, I have a right and a duty to talk about it.

[zer0patches]

You said that banning bots might do more harm than good...

It would, servers would be overrun with field bots playing catch up. Banning them would just create x more bots to take their place and only makes the situation worse.

and claimed that it stimulates an economy (which certainly sounds like a good thing).

It does. It is as long as people don't buy gold to purchase merchandise at over inflated values.

**Although** Even legit players reap the benefits of selling X at Y-1 value that gold sellers are trying to sell at Y. The only people that lose are players not trying to participate in the economy, which turns out to be what, the gold buyers.