Nexus owners

[RathSkybreaker]

snip @.@

Alright, let's be real here for a second, did you even keep up with progression in 2.2? Gear is never the issue, in an endgame progression situation, gear only helps, and is never the reason people don't clear the content quickly, it's the mechanics. It took so long to beat t9 not because people couldn't push extremes, it was because it took so long to figure out how dive bombs worked and how to deal with all of the mechanics in the last phase. So before you start calling people uneducated, actually follow progression. And before you try to say it's easy, look up the initial start that solved dive bombs, it was so convoluted, it was pretty much assumed that there were infinite possibilities, and it wasn't until a few weeks / months later the easier strat was found.

[Ghishlain]

Alright, let's be real here for a second, did you even keep up with progression in 2.2? Gear is never the issue, in an endgame progression situation, gear only helps, and is never the reason people don't clear the content quickly, it's the mechanics. It took so long to beat t9 not because people couldn't push extremes, it was because it took so long to figure out how dive bombs worked and how to deal with all of the mechanics in the last phase. So before you start calling people uneducated, actually follow progression. And before you try to say it's easy, look up the initial start that solved dive bombs, it was so convoluted, it was pretty much assumed that there were infinite possibilities, and it wasn't until a few weeks / months later the easier strat was found.

Hurm, you are correct, I forgot to take in account dive bombs being a cluster f--- this time around. Also, I apologize for the condescendingly aggressive nature of my original comment.

That being said, I still stand by my comment. I felt if the serious raiders at the inception of Coil 2.0 had full BiS i110 in their inventory, they would've cleared T9 much faster. Better gear meant they would be able to clear DPS checks easily and on top of that plow phases faster. This in turn would give them more opportunities to analyze and breakdown Dive Bombs, thus finding a solution faster (by how much faster, who's to say?). I will admit I did overvalue gearing more than I let on in my original comment and the game is more skill based than gear based in end game.

Likewise, counter pointing your original comment, if S-E launched the ENTIRETY of the Relic build at the beginning of 2.2 (Atma --> Nexus), I imagine the first nexus being built would take approximately the same amount of time as the first T9, in my opinion.

Atma - 2 - 5 days (depending on your luck, I can see this going on for a whole week)
Animus - 7 - 14 days (depending on how much you burn, I can see the extremely hardcore getting myth + book clear a day + accumulation of some more Myth before calling it)
Novus - 9 - 12 days (assuming infinite Gil to buy all the materia needed and doing the daily + myth farm, I can easily see 6-8 Alex a day @ around two hours Alex)
Nexus - 4 Days (as shown)

Assuming fastest time possible there, 22 days to complete. BG cleared Coil 2.0 on April 13th, 16 days after the March 26th release of Patch 2.2.

Therefore, it seems pretty reasonable time frame for the two extreme sides of raiders vs non-raiders reaching their pinnacle in the same time frame.

[DoubleT]

Atma - 2 - 5 days (depending on your luck, I can see this going on for a whole week)
Animus - 7 - 14 days (depending on how much you burn, I can see the extremely hardcore getting myth + book clear a day + accumulation of some more Myth before calling it)
Novus - 9 - 12 days (assuming infinite Gil to buy all the materia needed and doing the daily + myth farm, I can easily see 6-8 Alex a day @ around two hours Alex)
Nexus - 4 Days (as shown)

your math is flawed. during the 14 hour atma challenge the guy got 11 atmas in 14 hours so it is entirely possible to get all 12 within 24 hrs. A friend in my fc got 3 animus's completed in less than 2 weeks. and if i remember correctly the first novus's showed up within a week of their introduction. So if you were to go hard enough, you could finish in way under the time that you mentioned. As for coil, i dont remember exactly how soon after release that BG beat t9 for the first time, but i do remember that it was significantly faster than the time it took them to get the first t5 win. Either way, comparing coil gear to tomestone/relic gear is pointless in my opinion. They both involve grinding. Either grinding the quests/dungeons for one, or grinding deaths against a boss for the other, its all the same.

[Kaze3434]

your math is flawed. during the 14 hour atma challenge the guy got 11 atmas in 14 hours so it is entirely possible to get all 12 within 24 hrs. A friend in my fc got 3 animus's completed in less than 2 weeks. and if i remember correctly the first novus's showed up within a week of their introduction. So if you were to go hard enough, you could finish in way under the time that you mentioned. As for coil, i dont remember exactly how soon after release that BG beat t9 for the first time, but i do remember that it was significantly faster than the time it took them to get the first t5 win. Either way, comparing coil gear to tomestone/relic gear is pointless in my opinion. They both involve grinding. Either grinding the quests/dungeons for one, or grinding deaths against a boss for the other, its all the same.

if it means anything, the first ones i saw were the same people who finished nexus that i had said.

[Yamimarik]

your math is flawed. during the 14 hour atma challenge the guy got 11 atmas in 14 hours so it is entirely possible to get all 12 within 24 hrs.

Well you both are and can actually be right. I personally farmed my very first set of atmas within 26hrs after the patch went live, but it was spread out between 3 days. You can spend 24hrs and still get all your atmas within 1-2 weeks depending on 1.)RNG first and foremost and 2.) how much consecutive time you spend each day/attempt.

[Kuwagami]

As for coil, i dont remember exactly how soon after release that BG beat t9 for the first time, but i do remember that it was significantly faster than the time it took them to get the first t5 win.

This is flawed. T5 was down for more than a month because of various bugs and stuff due to early release. There was no way T9 would have been that slow due to no bugs on release.

[RathSkybreaker]

Snip

Although this is mostly true, aside from atmas being farm-able around 2.0-2.1~ making it moot, the point is, this is a 22 day process for a single person. Meaning an entire group can do this and all reach their pinnacle in 22 days theoretically. For BG, arguably one of the best progression FCs in the world, it took them 16 days to have one shot at RNG to get one person a weapon. Think about that. Lockout is being removed in a few weeks, but realistically that makes pretty much everything moot because having a better weapon doesn't make you not play like crap.Point is, a single person outside of the hardest dungeon in the game is able to progress faster than raiders ever were completing the most difficult content in the game. That doesn't make any sense. It gives people so little incentive to even want to raid at this point because it's like , wow, we worked really hard to beat all this content so that we could be max ilvl for the next turn that is 6 months from now, (Mind you, we've been clearing for MONTHS, and not everyone in our group is BiS yet) , and now they give everyone and their mom better weapons than us and full i110 gear in hunts, it just completely devalued all of our work the past 6 months, and yeah, raiders are a small minority of the community, but to be honest, if they keep this up, the raid scene will just die. TBH Progression around 2.0-2.1 was at a much better pace than whatever it is right now, right now it's really really stupid.

[Ghishlain]

But they are raiders, 50 sec cape westwind runs implies either raider gear or non-raider, but excessively dedicated player (i.e. raider that for some reason can't raid).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but my point is this:


Pinnacle of Raider's dream = T9 kill
Pinnacle of Non-Raider's dream = Relic Nexus

Then I compared the fact that the time frames for achieving both pinnacles would be comparable as both subsets of players have "excessively dedicated players" in their base who would be able to achieve that time frame. My original comment was directed to someone remarking the fact that getting Nexus would happen faster than beating T9, in which I made the attempt to refute that point by detailing out the entirety of the relic quest from Zenith to Nexus and showing a baseline comparison of a guess.

In fact, when you think back to the statement, if you want to effectively compare Novus to Nexus in four days to clearing T9, you'd probably need to compare it to someone in full i110 gear who can restart T9 at Divebomb phase as many times as they want until they see the pattern. At the Novus stage, you're basically at the last 10% of the Relic build for this tier of ilvl.

your math is flawed. during the 14 hour atma challenge the guy got 11 atmas in 14 hours so it is entirely possible to get all 12 within 24 hrs.

Take into account the guy had an entire army of players melting FATEs for him in the meantime. There will be some differentials here and there, but a friend of mine completed her entire Atma in a weekend solo and playing casually, so I don't doubt someone with a venerable army behind them can get 12 ATMAs in 14 hours. Still, in the end that would shave off one day in my original estimate anyway since I was going for the lowest common denominator for the math.

Although this is mostly true, aside from atmas being farm-able around 2.0-2.1~ making it moot, the point is, this is a 22 day process for a single person. Meaning an entire group can do this and all reach their pinnacle in 22 days theoretically. For BG, arguably one of the best progression FCs in the world, it took them 16 days to have one shot at RNG to get one person a weapon. Think about that. Lockout is being removed in a few weeks, but realistically that makes pretty much everything moot because having a better weapon doesn't make you not play like crap.Point is, a single person outside of the hardest dungeon in the game is able to progress faster than raiders ever were completing the most difficult content in the game. That doesn't make any sense. It gives people so little incentive to even want to raid at this point because it's like , wow, we worked really hard to beat all this content so that we could be max ilvl for the next turn that is 6 months from now, (Mind you, we've been clearing for MONTHS, and not everyone in our group is BiS yet) , and now they give everyone and their mom better weapons than us and full i110 gear in hunts, it just completely devalued all of our work the past 6 months, and yeah, raiders are a small minority of the community, but to be honest, if they keep this up, the raid scene will just die. TBH Progression around 2.0-2.1 was at a much better pace than whatever it is right now, right now it's really really stupid.

My point was that the hardcore elite of raiders (a subset of raiders as a whole) are not looking for the shiny, they're looking for the world first trophy. That's the pinnacle of perfection for a raider, and certainly not everyone's cup of tea. To me, it's less the weapon and more the fact you beat T9. This also means that I was completely "whooshed" on the point of your original post too =p

With that being said, I can understand your ire about that, since not all raiders are the "hardcore elite end-all-be-all" of all raiders, and people are doing it for the challenges and shinies and they feel jipped at the "casuals" getting the same said shinies. All I have to say about this is the fact that you've worked hard to be where you're at right now, and even if you're not all in BiS gear yet, you've reached a point in the game where you're ready for the next tier of challenges being released in 2.4. Most of those non-raiders will never see the challenges you and your group has faced, and thought they may have equivalent gearing to you, you know that you are more skilled than 90% of the gaming population because of your ability to down Coil in the ilvl it was designed for and you should carry that like a badge.

For me, the ilvl updates are always about stepping up to the next challenge, and S-E making gear more accessible more quickly isn't meant to belittle the achievements of raiders, it's meant to help increase the potential raiding pool. Sure, 90% of those "would-like-to-be" Raiders will never be good enough for Coil, but at least this gives the potential for newer groups to find members who are equally as skilled and geared to raid with instead of potentially choking out all new blood behind tons and tons of equipment / skill barriers that no one would be able to catch up with since at that point in time, those potential new recruits are working with those who are unable to surpass those barriers and thus not given the opportunity to "play with the big boys"

Is this an effective strategy on S-E's part? Time will tell.

[Zantitrach]

MNK/SCH got it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oV9QlnB-fI = MNK

http://imgur.com/H5jM4Fp = SCH

[PandaPause]

MNK/SCH got it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oV9QlnB-fI = MNK

http://imgur.com/H5jM4Fp = SCH

What armor is the MNK wearing? It looks awesome!