Semantics: The Echo vs. Warriors of Light

[Zyrusticae]

Okay, so this is something that has become kind of muddy to me.

The Echo is Hydaelyn's blessing. We know this, this is an in-game fact at this point in time. Hence anyone with the Echo can be said to be blessed by the Light of the Crystal.

So what about the title "Warriors of Light"? Can not anyone with the Echo be said to be a Warrior of Light? After all, they are blessed by the Light, and anyone who is blessed by the Light is said to be chosen by Her. I can see arguments that they would at least need to actually be "warriors" i.e. fighting against Darkness in some way in a direct fashion, hence why Minfilia would not be referred to as a Warrior of Light... yet at the same time, she is still aiding the fight against the Darkness and is chosen by Hydaelyn Herself, so the argument can run both ways for her.

At the same time, you have the complication of the Warriors of Light title being used to refer to those who were brought forward in time by Lousioux... which has the potential to include those who do not have the Echo. Or can it? Were ONLY those blessed by the Light of Hydaelyn Herself brought forward in time? Were there not NPCs among them who were brought forward? ...Does anyone outside of the writing team even know the answer to this?

Inquiring minds wish to know.

[Anonymoose]

Can not anyone with the Echo be said to be a Warrior of Light?

Yes. Well, mostly. I imagine that Sahagin elder probably wasn't.

I imagine the label is applied to any who (A) are chosen by Hydaelyn and (B) take up the fight against the darkness.

That last part is probably the key. You don't just have the Echo, you take the war to the dark as a representative of light.

I can see arguments that they would at least need to actually be "warriors"

There are many ways to fight. Philosophically, we are all at war, all the time, in one way or another.

the complication of the Warriors of Light title being used to refer to those who were brought forward in time by Lousioux

At first. By the end of the game, Hydaelyn is calling everyone Warriors of Light. I tried to explain this here the best I could.

Please note that it is not gospel, and we do still nitpick about it sometimes.

It's probably close, though, I link to it all the time and SE hasn't sent a representative to be like, "MOOSE, NO, STAHP."

Were ONLY those blessed by the Light of Hydaelyn Herself brought forward in time?

As far as I can tell, yes, that's the intended way to take it - that Louisoix sent forward the players that were chosen by Hydaelyn and took the fight all the way to Darnus. That doesn't meant the game can't go meta on itself, though. There's always overlap between the power that makes the players special and the NPC who has it as a representative of other players in the storyline. In 1.0, Minfilia and Tataru talked about how suddenly thousands were being awoken to the Echo (Translation: "Wow, look at all these new players! I mean, members of the Path of the Twelve!"), and yet there were plenty of NPCs who had it to represent other players, since you can't very well have actual players standing around talking about how they perceive the Echo, asking us the questions SE wants us to mull over from patch to patch. NPC Cartenau Warriors of Light probably can't be ruled out entirely, but if they ever did show up, they'd likely still be an NPC meant to pass along the sentiments of another player that SE might want you to consider.

MY BIG QUESTION right now is how this all links up to all these legends that, in the end, it's twelve figures that banish the darkness. We know the game worked the lore so that there are many Warriors of Light, but only one Champion of Eorzea. Will this eventually be adjusted for the Champion and several NPCs to be the twelve of this era? Is it always many, many people and the legends just embellish the stories to twelve glorious figures? Is the Seventh cycle special because it is believed to be the final? Parties adjusted from 8 to 12 members confirmed!?

[Zyrusticae]

Thank you, this was very helpful. There's one thing that still bothers me, however...

As far as I can tell, yes, that's the intended way to take it - that Louisoix sent forward the players that were chosen by Hydaelyn and took the fight all the way to Darnus.

How do we know the Derplander's companions represented other player characters, and how do we know they all had the Echo? As far as I can tell, there is no proof of this anywhere that I can see. It would make sense that they are all stand-ins as player characters, but the original 1.0 intro confuses this somewhat (as the Miqo'te and the Elezen do not show signs of possessing the Echo themselves).

[Anonymoose]

How do we know the Derplander's companions represented other player characters, and how do we know they all had the Echo?

The 2010 CG opening spurned a lot of debate, and unfortunately the game went down for rebuilding before virtually any questions were answered. We went on for pages and pages and pages - and then Fernehalwes stepped in, because SE hit the jackpot with this lore team and they continue to be just awesome in showing how much the care for this game and the story it has to tell. He helped clear up a few discrepancies created by the chaos of 1.0's botched launch, and mixed in there was a little of the information you're looking for. Now that I actually have the motivation and a few minutes of spare time, I've gone back into the archives to dig that up.

I think it explains what I meant by NPCs representing "PCs-that-aren't-you" much better.

As was stated above, all three have the power of the Echo, allowing them to experience the past, interact with it, but ultimately not change the outcome of anything important (the wind created by a battleaxe swing will not start a hurricane in Garlemald). <snip> But that still leaves one question—was the party an actual party, or were they merely symbols meant to represent you, the players? Well, you can breathe easy knowing they are both. They all ventured into Eorzea at the same time as you did. They all did similar quests, and lived through similar adventures. They exist as your characters exist (in a virtual world-sort of existence). The fact that you haven’t come across them is probably the same reason you haven’t come across my character, Amanda Hugginkyss (or maybe you have? /wink). They’re just somewhere else. Though, maybe you’ll stumble across their party in the future. Or maybe you won’t. How’s that for committing to an answer?

[finiteHP]

From a lore standpoint gaining the echo didn't happen to everyone at the same time. Minfilia for example had it long before the player characters ever came to Eorzea. It has been stated that the <b>party</b> in End of an Era are both representations of the players themselves and characters in their own right that may or may not show up so I would assume that all five of them have the echo. From this I can see two possibilities for the Miqo'te and four for the Elezan man. The first possibility is that the Miqo'te had the echo already and since echo jumps are most often solo, she didn't echo with him. Her (good?) natured teasing of Derplander may be in recognition of what the Echo does to everyone before they have mastered it. The other possibility is the Miqo'te hadn't awakened yet but does later. The Elezan man also has those two possibilities. The fact that the Elezen man wasn't in Derplander's final party (Fernehalwes says the Black Mage is the Elezen woman no matter what it looks like in End of an Era and A New Beginning) adds two more possibilities to my mind. He may never have developed the Echo, or he is one of those walkers who "saw the end of the path". I do not remember the exact words, but in 1.X Minfilia stated that those walkers claimed to have seen the path became disheartened and would not speak of what they saw.

[axemtitanium]

Only marauders who obtain a Warrior soul crystal are eligible to be Warriors of Light. XD