Resource Management

[Aegis]

Resources management is a great utility to have but having it effect the overall characters ability to perform is just not fun.

Good Resource Management: Aetherflow for Scholars (Giving them the ability to exceed their normal abilities to a limited extent)
Bad Resource Management: TP limits, forcing players to have to 'wait' before doing something.

I'm all for giving players options to outperform their normal capacity with the use of limited resources that can recharge. Just please don't create a system that inhibits a player entirely if they don't push buttons in the right order.

Isn't that a perfect description of a rotation? Your DPS is inhibited if you aren't following the right rotation?

With enmity being something that everyone needs to manage, you aren't limited by your available TP/MP so much as you are the adverse effect on your party by unleashing at the wrong time. It means paying attention to a fight beyond knowing what move is next. If the boss just unleashed a big hit on the tank, the tanks enmity will have decayed significantly, perhaps use a low-enmity debuff of some kind?

It becomes not so much a case of knowing your best rotation. It becomes knowing when to use that rotation, and when not to.

[Codek]

Isn't that a perfect description of a rotation? Your DPS is inhibited if you aren't following the right rotation?

The thing is that a dps rotation will exist to maximize damage with or without a resource management system. If the system exists, then the rotation will simply take that into account and alter the rotation.

The added benefit is simply a change in the rotation (which is basically nothing) and the added option to burst with the sacrafice of not being able to do anything down the road. The downside is that doing the rotation wrong not only yields a lower output but also creates a situation where the player is told they can't do anything (which is just stupid).

The combat system doesn't need an overall inhibitor on a rotation. Having designated abilities revolving around the resource can accomplish the same strategic value just the same and also make those abilities feel almost godlike when they can be utilized.

[Aegis]

The thing is that a dps rotation will exist to maximize damage with or without a resource management system. If the system exists, then the rotation will simply take that into account and alter the rotation.

The added benefit is simple a change in the rotation (which is basically nothing) and the added option to burst with the sacrafice of not being able to do anything down the road. The downside is that doing the rotation wrong not only yields a lower output but also creates a situation where the player is told they can't do anything (which is just stupid).

The combat system doesn't need an overall inhibitor on a rotation. Having designated abilities revolving around the resource can accomplish the same strategic value just the same and also make those abilities feel almost godlike when they can be utilized.

But if someone follows an optimal rotation and steals hate from the tank he would be lowering the party as a whole's DPS by causing healers and tanks to waste valuable resources on returning hate, additionally running the risk of an AOE from the turned mob hitting other party members.

In this way, increasing your DPS has decreased the party's DPS.

T8 and T9 are resource management fights for healers. It took me a while to get used to the tempo, and made me learn how to slave drive the shit out of the poor fairy.

I will admit to having no experience of second coil. My static broke up after clearing T5 and before T6+ were released.

[Codek]

But if someone follows an optimal rotation and steals hate from the tank he would be lowering the party as a whole's DPS by causing healers and tanks to waste valuable resources on returning hate, additionally running the risk of an AOE from the turned mob hitting other party members.

In this way, increasing your DPS has decreased the party's DPS.



I will admit to having no experience of second coil. My static broke up after clearing T5 and before T6+ were released.

Threat management will be in regardless, but it can be spun around in a way where the player doesn't need to hold back their dps but instead manage another resource to control that threat.

Example:
Monk is given 5 resources every minute called "Numb" - reduced threat from the next ability to 0.

Generally, they would want to utilize this with their heavy hit in a rotation. It would also be more beneficial to use it for all abilities in a string of attacks that line up with increased damage cooldowns going off.

Either way, when to use those resources drastically depends on the situation at play making it a much more dynamic system. It's far more engaging then simply determining your threat output over time and holding back to manage it.

[Aegis]

Threat management will be in regardless, but ic can be spun around in a way where the player doesn't need to hold back their dps but instead manage another resource to control that threat.

Example:
Monk is given 5 resources every minute called "Numb" - reduced threat from the next ability to 0.

Generally, they would want to utilize this with their heavy hit in a rotation. It would also be more beneficial to use it for all abilities in a string of attacks that line up with increased damage cooldowns going off.

Either way, when to use those resources drastically depends on the situation at play making it a much more dynamic system. It's far more engaging then simply determining your threat output over time and holding back to manage it.

But Numb would still slot into a rotation; there would be an optimal time to use it and sub-optimal times that would remain the same essentially regardless of the fight you are engaged in.

It wasn't that hard, cure 2 and cover the person that stole hate. And yeah, I think that is what OP was talking about, no? He wants to have to work for that.

Indeed he was. In fact, because enmity is so easy to maintain in this game, Cover is almost never used (I've used it a couple of times in Wanderer's Palace) in XIV where it was used fairly often in XI.

[Codek]

But Numb would still slot into a rotation; there would be an optimal time to use it and sub-optimal times that would remain the same essentially regardless of the fight you are engaged in.

It would have a rule set within a rotation. It wouldn't always be utilized the same way as it drastically depends on what kind of threat you are expecting to work with inside a 60 seconds window.

How you use it in regards to attacking a boss for 5 minutes or an add that dies in 20 seconds would be two completely different things.

It's like having a Max damage/High threat rotation and a Normal Damage/Optimal threat rotation, only difference is that the player doesn't decide for the normal damage rotation if they manage the resources effectively. They don't get that feeling of holding back because of the resource system because they can do a Max Damage/ Optimal threat rotation. If they fail to manage the resource correctly, then the penalty will occur somewhere (lower their own dps or pull and cause chaos).

[Bixby]

Agreed. I just feel without it, the game is a little... arcadey. Dodge this, dodge that, keep up DPS etc. It feels like playing Battletoads again.

Can't really argue too much with that. I wish I were making more actual choices in combat instead of just being a living series of simplistic if/then statements.

The thing is that a dps rotation will exist to maximize damage with or without a resource management system. If the system exists, then the rotation will simply take that into account and alter the rotation.

And there's this, too. Making resource management interesting, to me, is 100% tied to the randomness and pace of combat. It goes back to the decisions you're making. If the combat doesn't require you to alter or abandon your rotation to a significant degree, resource management as a mechanic is just sort of a boring/frustrating pass/fail.

[Aegis]

Can't really argue too much with that. I wish I were making more actual choices in combat instead of just being a living series of simplistic if/then statements.

And there's this, too. Making resource management interesting, to me, is 100% tied to the randomness and pace of combat. It goes back to the decisions you're making. If the combat doesn't require you to alter or abandon your rotation to a significant degree, resource management as a mechanic is just sort of a boring/frustrating pass/fail.

I think I agree with pretty much everything you've said, and I couldn't have phrased the bolded part any better.