Why aren't there more tanks in FFXIV?

[Mags]

"To the surprise of pretty much no one, tanks are the rarest thing to find in Final Fantasy XIV at the moment. It's so rare to see a role other than tank in need on the Duty Roulette that people take notice of the times when it changes. Everyone knows that tanks are in short supply, leading to the supposed "tank rewards" introduced in 2.2 that don't seem to hit the mark.

I've seen a number of posts in which people ask why there are so few tanks and what can be done about it, and most of them seem to miss the mark, either by completely misunderstanding what tanking actually entails or by misunderstanding why people aren't tanking. Really, I don't think it's terribly complicated. Why aren't there more tanks in Final Fantasy XIV? Three pretty straightforward reasons, none of which tends to be addressed when I see people asking that question.

The natural strain

If you've never tanked before, know that tanking is always a stressful thing to do. A good tank has to be aware of everything going on at any given moment, changing targets, watching threat, maintaining survivability, and moving about hither and yon. Tanking is just plain stressful, no matter what game you're playing.

This isn't just a matter of mechanics, either. A tank is expected to know what's going on in a situation even if the rest of the group is just derping through. Being the tank doesn't mean that you have to be the leader, but you're expected to set the pace of content, both by what you choose to engage and how you choose to do it. There's no signal that the tank gets to say when it's time to pull; it's up to the tank to determine that.

A bad pull can mean a wipe, and a good pull means that everything is invisible. For a lot of players, the strain that's inherent to the role is just not a fun ride. Tanking in every game asks a little bit more than other player roles.

The mechanical block

But we're not talking about tanking just as it applies to games in general; we're talking about Final Fantasy XIV. And as someone who's played a lot of tanks over the years, I can say that by and large, tanking in FFXIV is a fair bit harder than average.

There are exceptions, obviously. Titan HM is almost relaxing for a tank; your only real danger is Mountain Buster, and popping cooldowns for that is pretty rote. But by and large, most fights that require the tank to do something require a lot of attentiveness on the part of the tank. Trash pulls are frequently involved, and while bosses don't always require a great deal of investment from the tank, they only occasionally allow the tank to just do whatever.

Part of it is just the nature of the beast. Getting stronger equipment requires you to throw yourself against some rough content that's particularly nasty on undergeared players. You also have to learn the dungeon as a tank for the first time, something that's hard to do when you started out from a DPS or healing perspective.

Part of it also is the game itself. AoE threat for the tanking classes is fairly weak: Warriors have the best tools with Overpower, Steel Cyclone, and cross-class Flash, and even they are going to be hard-pressed to keep up against serious AoE play. There's an emphasis on swapping targets and tank dodges that you don't find all the time. Keeping threat is not something that just sort of happens, and there are a lot of boss fights that require the tank to pick things up, sometimes without a lot of room for error.

All this having been said, credit is due to the game for making two out of eight classes playable as tanks; it's only two out of nine jobs, but that's just because Arcanist pulls multiple duties. I can only hope that new additions keep this ratio.

The environment against it

It's kind of funny, but 2.2 is the patch that makes me not want to be a tank any longer.

Being a tank is always a stressful experience, as I said. As long as it remains a stressful experience, it's going to make people want to do it less frequently. But I've always enjoyed doing roulettes, grouping up with random people and having fun, exploring dungeons, and so forth.

The fact that the tank "bonus" mounts require a couple hundred runs of the highest-end full-group content already feels like kind of a kick in the pants for tanks. That's the opposite of a prize, but whatever. But the player culture since 2.2 went live has made something I used to enjoy something to dread. It might be luck of the draw, but every single roulette run I've had over the past couple of weeks has been another Brayflox HM with people obsessed with running through at max speed, no talking, no jokes, just blitz through.

It isn't fun. And that aspect of player culture, of people treating tanks as if they're basically just the impediment in the way of forming a group, makes me not want to tank except for the people I hang out with and already enjoy. I'll happily take a Brayflox run that's four minutes longer than a speed run if it means a few minutes of laughter here and there.

Yes, I've timed both versions.

I have no doubt that it's fun for certain people, but it's not fun for me in the role of tank, and so I find myself backing off from the roulettes I used to do except what I need to do for my challenge log. And that's what it comes down to, really. When being a tank is already a frequently stressful experience, making the whole thing more stressful and more demanding means that fewer people are going to answer the call.

You don't fix that with mounts (especially not if those mounts are locked behind content that not everyone wants to do repeatedly). You don't fix it with more iconic abilities. You don't fix it with rebranding, you don't fix it with damage numbers, you don't fix it by ignoring the problem. You can't really fix it except by encouraging an environment where playing as a tank feels like it's worth the stress for a reason other than shorter queue times.

Not that you can really patch that in, though.

As always, feedback is welcome down below, or via mail to eliot@massively.com. Next week, I'd like to talk about the stuff creeping in at the corners, the rumors and early translation speak discussing new classes and more adventures. Please look forward to it!

But wait, there's more! I know more than a few readers expressed some sorrow at the fact that this is now biweekly rather than weekly, and you know, FFXIV is something I do a lot of thinking and talking about. So I'm glad to say that myself and my dear friend Nel Celestine are now doing a weekly podcast, Chocobo Dash! The first two episodes are now available: Episode 1 discusses a lot of 2.2 issues, while Episode 2 talks about parsing, Atmas, offhands, and Odin. I've also been doing other Final Fantasy writing on my personal site, but it's not FFXIV-related. So you can look forward to more Chocobo Dash on a weekly basis, which should help ease the loss somewhat."

by Eliot Lefebvre

oops. I meant to do a better job of copying this story.. while it was written in April, it word for word is my thoughts and feelings on tanking. I love it, but.. I am freaking out here on a daily basis and it has gotten to a point tat I now switch to DPS or Healing roles for roulettes at times. I love the idea of tanking, but, for some reason I feel beaten each time I try to in FFXIV.

[Kaethra]

Tanking in FFXIV isn't the hardest thing in FFXIV to do. Its also not the hardest game with tanking. But that makes it no less stressful and no easier to do. It can still be quite intimidating.

I've had alot of experience with Tanking in a variety of games. I've dabbled with it in Everquest, did a fair bit in World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, and experienced it in many other games including RIFT, Tera, TOR, and so on. I've done group content, raids, ect. What sets FFXIV apart from the others is how precise a tank has to be in their threat generation. Simply put, you have to really be on the ball with your rotations so you can hold threat, especially if your DPS are doing their's properly. In other games this isn't normally an issue. You get some wiggle room. You only have to be on the ball if your dps out gears you. Not so much in FFXIV, especially with Gladiators/Paladins.

Now it DOES get easier as you level. But those first 30 levels can be brutal for someone if they've never tanked before. They may even believe they are doing something wrong. They might even be grouped with iLvl 90+ DPS scaled down. And if its a 50 dungeon such as Praetorium.. that's a daunting task to say the least.

Tank's set the pace. Always have, always will. For those who like taking charge and moving forward. This is an awesome opportunity. Not everyone is a leader. Not everyone wishes to be the keystone of the group. Nothing wrong with that. But that also leads to there being fewer tanks. Many are self conscious:

"Am I moving too fast..?"
"Am I moving too slow?"
"Which target do I go for first?"
"Am I doing something wrong?"
"What does the group think of me?"

These questions all run through a new tank's mind. They don't realize for the first three... that 9 times out of 10. Its whatever they choose. They choose the pace, they choose the targets. They run the direction the group will go. As for the fourth question. You will always do something wrong on your first time, that's how you learn. And for the last one. Many times, you just being in the group, as a tank, makes the group think you are awesome.

Yeah we've heard the horror stories of people ragging on tanks. But really. Think about it. A DPS just spent 25 minutes or longer in the queue. They are not a healer or tank and don't see quick queues. Do you really think they will go out of their way to insult the tank? Granted some will. But there are bad players and many good ones. Personally I've not had many issues as a tank in this game. Most groups are pretty decent. They listen to directions, or try to. Its rare that I see people who won't listen. In those cases you kindly step away.

Now I said that tanking wasn't the hardest thing in FFXIV to do. Its not. And you know what? Its not healing either. Its DPS, DD, or whatever you wish to call it. Yes.. Black Mages, Summoners, Bards, Monks, Dragoons, and soon to be Ninjas have the hardest job.

What? All they do is make things HP = 0

If that is all they ever do, then yes, they pass some of the difficulty to the Healer and the Tank. A great tank and healer can get poor DPS through a dungeon. It can happen. But it causes that stress everyone brings up.

How many of you DD's out there use all of your abilities? Or do you stick to pre-defined damage rotations? No I'm not talking about Repose and Sleep. I'm talking about debuffs and other little things that are situational but can really add up throughout a dungeon. You know, stuns, silences throughout the trash pulls so the tank isn't having to dodge, or healer have to swap out of Cleric Stance to heal something that could have been avoided.

We had a few sayings in my raid group a few years back in a previous game:

"If the group needs healing, its not doing enough damage."
"Killing is the best form of CC."

When DPS split the damage, the tank takes more damage. The tank also has to split threat or let one go, provoke it off, and hopefully not lose the other. DPS are normally in the thick and frequently targeted by Boss AOEs and the like. They also have to deal with adds, flip switches, operate cannons, and a variety of other things. So needless to say, they have alot to do, alot to do in order to see a smooth run.

Tanks are blessed (or cursed) with the ability to pick up the slack. And that is where the stress comes in. Do you grin and bear it. Or do you instruct the DD/DPS to play properly? Starting tanks are ignorant to what DPS have to, or rather should be doing. Veteran DPSers who are tanking, have a general idea of what their DPS should be doing. And boy do the arguments start when they see something they don't like.

But most people are in the former category. And that's where things get crazy for first time tanks and first time players playing tanks. Some of the responsibility falls on the DPS to allow the newer tanks to grow and learn. Course that's a perfect world and we don't live in that.

Next up you have healers. Most people put these on pedestals and don't try to tick them off. Cause why bite the hand that feeds and keeps you healthy right? Well.. that goes out the window the moment they 'slip up'. Whether it be they actually did, or the poor tard got themselves killed and now blame the healer. Anyway.. point I'm making here as a tank, don't put these people on pedestals. They have a job and a role just like you do. They need to perform it.

Of course as a tank, its your job to protect them. Not many healers will be doing things wrong and pull agro (with the rare cleric stanced healer attacking full DPS on mobs you aren't even attacking, but this is rare), so you need to be sure you are holding threat on everything. At the same time, they need to keep you up. There's not a single pull in the game that a healer cannot heal through for any reason so long as they are geared for the dungeon (many dungeons where this matters has a minimum item level). That is assuming.. you as the tank dodge AOEs and take precautions (tank cooldowns and the like).

Point here.. there shouldn't be an excuses. If someone dies, its someone's fault. It should just be fessed up to, and corrected. But again.. as a new player.. how do you know what this is? Its a conundrum at best.

And then you have those rare times where the group just doesn't work. It happens. You have a tank that knows the fight, has the gear, and does what they need to. You have a healer who's done the fight and knows how to heal, and DPS are doing what they need to... and you still wipe. And you wipe again. And then again on a silly trash pull. Sometimes groups aren't on the same page. Sometimes its the healer and tank just not seeing eye to eye or just not communicating. In those cases its best to split up and retry again. It kinda sucks for the DPS who have to wait, but even for them its better to wait then to engage into an argument where players will say things they will regret later.

Unfortunately all of these points between tanks, healers, dps, and groups in general are assuming experience in tanking. Heck.. my experience in tanking dates back to 2001 or even earlier. Not everyone has that luxury. And that is where we have a problem. How do we get newbies to be not newbies, and become veterans? Because lets face it, Vets aren't going to tank all the time just because they are Vets. Well the answer to that is simple. Get the newbies to tank and become veterans.

That's easy enough to say, but how do we do it? There's much that can be done. One thing SE can do is meet the players halfway. Ease the early level tanking issues by increasing the threat on the second hit on the 3 hit combo in the tanks' rotation. That would be Savage Blade and Skull Sunder. It doesn't have to be much. But just enough so a tank can reliably hold threat on two mobs. Even if the DPS are derping around a little. I'm talking about a 5-10% increase compared to what it does now. This way DPS making honest mistakes aren't ripping threat. Arrogant ones should pull agro and get themselves killed.

About that. In the earlier levels, the DPS aren't taking much damage from such actions. All it does is ruin the morale of a new tank. You have a DPS pull agro, and tank the mob you should be tanking. This is a little tougher to fix, as it would take an undertaking to fix. But I think it would be worth it. Increase the gap between heavy armor and other armor for the lower levels. This way non-tanks in dungeons just get wrecked if they derp.

And the last thing I would have SE do is allow the first Job ability be usable at level 1. Still gotta be 30 in the class to receive the job. But lets not punish Job users in lower dungeons. For tanks specifically this would allow them to use Sword Oath and Defiance. Probably couldn't hurt to switch Sword Oath and Shield Oath obtainability. This would help newer tanks and vets as well. We all hate going into a pre 30 dungeon and are locked out of our job skills.

Now finally.. what can the community do with the situation?

First of all, we need more tanks. So you all need to give it a shot. Step in the water, its not so bad. If you're a veteran of the game. Tanking will be easy. You know the fights already.

Second, give the newbies a shot. Don't yell or fuss at them. Work with them. God damn, you're not doing it, so don't give them grief for it.

Third, just be awesome to each other. Try to help the newbies and ask questions if you are new. Heck ask questions if you're a vet. Many times there's different ways to do an encounter, maybe a way you haven't seen before. Be ready to learn, be ready to teach too. Teaching others improves your knowledge too. Its win win.

Finally, take personal responsibility. If you're a tank and goofed, admit to it and continue on. If you let the tank drop as a healer because your phone rang, then fess up to it. Same thing with DPS. People respect those who take responsibility. People lose respect for you when you hide it.

These four things are very very important. Patches and developer coding takes time and effort on SE. We can sit here and hope for changes, or we can take it upon ourselves to improve the situation. It would help if SE met us halfway. But even if we do our own leg work, we're still halfway there and better off then we are now. A journey starts with a step.

Taking that step involves patience, a good attitude, willingness to learn, and a lot of personal responsibility. That goes for tanking, healing, and damage dealing. There's four people that go into a duty. All four need to participate in making the experience much easier for everyone involved.

That's how you get more players into tanking.

[Moqi]

cos ppl are dueces

joking asides, I'm levelling a pally and it's getting interesting now (kinda) but it was SO boring at the beginning. All i could do was use the same combo till I ran out of TP. And yeah people are rude sometimes but I'm over that now lol.

[OldGeezer]

Tanking in FFXIV isn't the hardest thing in FFXIV to do. Its also not the hardest game with tanking. But that makes it no less stressful and no easier to do. It can still be quite intimidating.... *snips excellent post*
.

The stress level for tanking is a little more nuanced I believe. Single target pulls are pretty easy to maintain as a tank, It's the group pulls that cause anxiety because you have 10 seconds to establish hate on the pull, and if something goes wrong it deteriorates quickly. I play a paladin so I'll use that as an example. I mark targets to mitigate stupidity but it doesn't always work. There is always one moron who thinks 3 needs to die before 1. Then I pop at least 2 flash bombs and then do a three sword combo on 1, just in time for the AOE attack of target 1. Do I evade it, forcing the lancer to move around so it can keep poking it in the ass or do I try to shield slam it and maintain position while risking losing hate on the target? However, I have to immediately break off 1 to do a three combo on 2 because healer aggro rises on all 3 targets at the same time. Then I go to 3 for the same reason as 2. Now somewhere between 2 and 3 you need another flash bomb because the DPS are already on your ass for hate on target 1 by this point, if they haven't puled it off you already. Of course, there is always the BLM who thinks nuking Fire II is the only way to fly since they seem to enjoy watching you run around like a chicken with your head cut off. So if you comeback to 1 and you still have aggro, congratulations, you did a successful pull. Just 30 more just like it until the end of the dungeon assuming patrols don't come by to say hello, and they usually do.

This is the most stressful part for tanking. Primals and raids have their own issues but it's dungeons where tanks go through their trials by fire. My solution is buffing Flash Bomb's and Sunder's(?) AOE enmity. That initial hate is crucial to establishing hate for the entire battle. Once that is lost, for whatever reason, it causes most of the anxiety for tanks. You remove that problem and tanking will become more appealing to the masses.

[ispano]

-snip-

Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

For conal, yes. For circular you will have to reposition (or eat it) and if the DPS is going all out, transitioning to target 2 can be hectic and that leads to anxiety.

No, even circular you can dodge and not have the mob move. Unless the circle is huge and animation is very short.

[OldGeezer]

Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

For conal, yes. For circular you will have to reposition (or eat it) and if the DPS is going all out, transitioning to target 2 can be hectic and that leads to anxiety.

[Kaethra]

Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

No, even circular you can dodge and not have the mob move. Unless the circle is huge and animation is very short.

ispano is actually right about this. As soon as the telegraphs disappear, it is safe to move back into the affected area. Most times the boss will sit there during the animation. And you have time to move back into the previous position, move in front of the arrow on the target ring circle and the boss never moves.

Really need to get a video up showing this.

Another tip, especially with gladiators/paladins in the lower levels. Marking targets works, and many will follow the order. But heals generate alot of threat too initially. To prevent this, there is a few things you can do:

1. Level a Conjurer to 34 and then use Stoneskin before 3+ pulls. This means you don't need to be healed for the first couple of hits and allows you to get some enmity hits in there before the heals do come in.

2. Flash bombs are a waste of time. This is assuming where you go flash flash flash. Instead to get AOE threat. Use Flash, Fast Blade, Flash, Savage Blade, Flash, Rage of Halone. Basically intertwine the flashes and you'll build a solid AOE threat base. Its even enough for stray DPS not to pull for a few rounds. Also it ensures you hold enough threat on your main target.

3. Switch targets before the one you're focusing on is dead. You don't need to kill the mob yourself, thats why you have damage dealers. Feel free to switch at 20% and focus on the next target. That helps immensely when you have heavy dps. In addition you can see how much threat everyone has, if everyone is below half, feel free to switch targets there too and focus on something that needs more attention.

As for warriors and marauders. I don't have enough experience with these. I've been told about 1-3 overpowers and everything is good lol. Someone else can comment on those.

[Spetsnaz]

Hmmm I guess I'm glad I went tank first and still main it...

I don't get why people struggle with tanking. I swear, to me it's simple. Even when I come across a terrible tank in an instance, if they listen to the few quick tips I give they tend to go the rest of the dungeon without serious issues.

In fact, now that I think about it, the majority of my friends list is tanks I've helped one way or another.

If stressful means not being able to beat a dungeon while watching netflix then I guess that would be stressful. But by the time anyone makes it to 50 as a tank, they should really have a good handle on what to do.

[Barboron]

People don't want to play tank, simple. There's little to nothing that can be done about it without upsetting the balance of the game or doing some cheap methods of enticing people which could only be temporary, such as the fugly mounts (which I have both).

[joshsecret]

im so confused.
whats the point in this thread?

<insert captain obvious gif>