[Dev 1082] Summoner Design Concept

[AreeyaJaidee]

They confirmed we will be getting summons, but it wasn't fleshed out yet and they had, at the time, not decided yet if it would be a class/job or if everyone would be able to summon.

EDIT: Oh and I think in the new Famitsu they said they were getting rid of action points for the action bar? Can't really remember.

Awesome info Thanks!

To everyone else:
Why do you believe SMN would be over powered? (DMG could be scaled to the same effectiveness as a DD)

Why does SMN having multiple summons make it OP?

Is SMN a job desired because of its playstyle but not so much OPness?

Balancing ideas furthered:
- the SMN should directly support the summon and have full reliance on summons
- DMG could be elementally scaling
- DMG could be increased to above moderate only with hard to obtain gear
- Healing could be restricted to certain Primals
- Primals could each play a specific role which effectively mod other jobs; this gives the SMN the ability to aid other jobs which are specialists via their Primals

Some supporting examples are in my OP; if you notice insuggested Primals get enmity transfers (this could be primal specific too so only certain ones get it) this enmity transfer is AIDING the tank in his/her tank job, rather than replacing him.

The above example shows that with smart thinking SMN could be a very tactical support job as well as fill in for jobs that are in heavy demand already.

In support of that last statement: the more options a SMN has the better it is as a DD or support. Give the option to the player to decide his rOle and playstyle. That's what makes games fun most times

[SuzakuCMX]

I think it'd be awesome if it was some sort of combination between the Gestahlt meter from FFXIII and Devas from Guild Wars.

Basically you always have access to the summons you've unlocked, but you choose to channel the summon's power (like Devas) to gain a new set of skills/abilities (for example, channeling Shiva would give you a bunch of ice spells) for a little bit (like 10-30 seconds depending on the power). To perform a "true" summon, there's a Summon meter while you're channeling a Summon that fills up as you do specific things (like damage enemies, crit, crit magically, heal allies, take damage, etc.) and when the gauge is full, you have the ability to actually summon the ... eikon and it'll use its "ultimate" ability (Diamond Dust, Hellfire, Tsunami/Tidal Wave, Megaflare...)

[AreeyaJaidee]

I think it'd be awesome if it was some sort of combination between the Gestahlt meter from FFXIII and Devas from Guild Wars.

Basically you always have access to the summons you've unlocked, but you choose to channel the summon's power (like Devas) to gain a new set of skills/abilities (for example, channeling Shiva would give you a bunch of ice spells) for a little bit (like 10-30 seconds depending on the power). To perform a "true" summon, there's a Summon meter while you're channeling a Summon that fills up as you do specific things (like damage enemies, crit, crit magically, heal allies, take damage, etc.) and when the gauge is full, you have the ability to actually summon the ... eikon and it'll use its "ultimate" ability (Diamond Dust, Hellfire, Tsunami/Tidal Wave, Megaflare...)

Hmm that is pretty neat

Looks more and more like everyone hated FFXI around here :/

Kinda makes me sad that summons will be reduced to one time use spells instead of the awesome companions they could have been.

It's a bit annoying tbh

[SuzakuCMX]

Hmm that is pretty neat

Looks more and more like everyone hated FFXI around here :/

Kinda makes me sad that summons will be reduced to one time use spells instead of the awesome companions they could have been.

It's a bit annoying tbh

It's how they originally were.

And it also means a higher chance of awesome cinematics when they use their ultimate ability

>_>
<_<

[AreeyaJaidee]

It's how they originally were.

And it also means a higher chance of awesome cinematics when they use their ultimate ability

>_>
<_<

Good point: although i think cinematics will get you killed in this game lol!!!

So you're saying you'd rather summons be the same old summon they always were?

[Brightshadow]

In my opinion I think it would be much better if Summoner in this game played more like a druid. It would make the class a lot more easier to balance, and won't make it so weak like FFXI since your character is the one doing the fighting.

[SuzakuCMX]

Good point: although i think cinematics will get you killed in this game lol!!!

So you're saying you'd rather summons be the same old summon they always were?

I didn't really care for the summons in X and XII besides their cinematics >.> That was always the draw of summons for me.

[RabidSquirrel]

Not sure if anyone will care, but I figured I'd post some ideas I had a while back anyways.
So...WALL O TEXT GO

Think of the summoner and their avatar as "connected":

- No cooldown on avatars recast times. Because cooldowns are always the poorest and easiest balance solution.

- No perpetuation cost of any kind. Players like keeping their pets out.

- 8 or so second cast time to summon. This allows the summoner to switch avatars in group settings if needed, but make the proposition a little risky because it's effectively the summoner switching their role, which is explained below.

- Each avatar specializes in a role, such as tanking, damage dealing, crowd control, healing, etc. The summoner is basically a jack of all trades, but master of none. So a summoner won't be quite as effective as jobs that specialize in a certain role, but they'll be adequate.

- While an avatar is out, the avatar will gain access to their own specific abilities as well as ones set from other classes. The summoner doesn't use those other abilities, the avatar does. Meaning yes, the summoner themselves can't really do anything except run around and cast through their avatar. But if there is no avatar summoned, then the summoner can use those abilities. There will be some restrictions on avatars casting another class's elemental abilities, though.

- While an avatar is out, it's HP and MP percentages are linked to the summoner's. So if Titan gets down to 1000/2000 HP (50% HP), the summoner's HP will also match 50% and vice versa. This is used to prevent "kite anything forever" techniques, which is why summoner was so hard to balance in FFXI. This also means that if a summoner and their avatar get hit with an AoE, it's effectively double damage. So it's key that summoners stay as safe as possible.

- The summoner can be healed while an avatar is out, which will also heal an avatar, but the percentage of HP gained is relative to the larger max HP. So if your avatar has twice as much HP as you, and you're healed for 200, the avatar receives the full 200 HP back while the summoner receives 100 HP. Once again, it's to keep percentages the same.

- When an avatar is summoned, it will have the same percentage of HP and MP that the summoner currently has. It will also have any buffs currently on the summoner.

- If the avatar or summoner receives a buff, the buff is applied to the other party. So if an avatar receives stoneskin, so will the summoner, and vice versa.

- No other job/class can summon avatars. That should be pretty self-explanatory.

And that's about all I can remember for now. I don't think I've ever said "vice versa" this much in my life.

[Arcell]

As I've said in every single "Summoner please!" thread, with how the lore of the game and the main story is there cannot be a pet class summoner. The Primals are not subservient in any way, shape or form. In fact others worship them and do their bidding. So far they've given us a very big "we don't give a shit about you" impression. There's no way they could possibly be coerced into doing our bidding as Adventurers. Also not to mention the fact that they require elemental crystals to be brought into this world for any given time.

Sorry, Summoner as a pet class just wouldn't work with this game unless they completely scrapped the entire story and all lore concerning them and re-did it from the start.

Edit: The only thing I think would work and not interfere with how the Primals are is a system like FF7's for example where the creature is summoned, uses a single gigantic attack and then leaves.

[SuzakuCMX]

I'd prefer Summoners be ... more like paragons and Beastmaster be a pet class