[Dev 1082] Summoner Design Concept

[Winterclaw]

I see 2 solutions:

#1: mastering only of one aspect DD/Debuff or Heal/Support so the summoner could excel in one aspect but not both. Letting the SMN choose the way he wants to play and not forced into a role.

#2: ALL summons are sharing the same summoning cooldown, 15 min in your exemple. That would make so the summoner cannot switch summon on a spin and would need to stick with the same summon for at least 15 minutes. That way it would be OK for a SMN to be Excellent with every summon since anyways they would be limited with their summoning Cooldown. The cons for this though that I can see is that if you click the wrong summon in error you are stuck with it for 15min and also I can see people crying that summoner would be able to accomplish anything and fit any role and be excellent at it and cry that is still not fair. (people are very sensitive that way)

You're solutions are bad (false alternatives) and worse (allowing all the summons but giving them a crippling cool down).



Solution 3, only one summon can be equipped or used at a time. Like pokemon, you want to use a different summon, you have to put the first one away.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

You're solutions are bad (false alternatives) and worse (allowing all the summons but giving them a crippling cool down).



Solution 3, only one summon can be equipped or used at a time. Like pokemon, you want to use a different summon, you have to put the first one away.

Never said I had the ultimate solutions.

Anyways your solution is also flawed. If I get it right you mean like equiping it on your action bar. That means they would cost action points and you would not be able to equip them all and would only be able to switch when not in combat.

That's fine but that only opens up the door to complaining that SMN are overpowered and able to do everything and they will be nerfed and reduced in utility and effectiveness like in FFXI. You can't have everything that is why, even though you think it is bad, I think my #1 solution works fine. You still have to equip your summons I'd assume with the current system but you have to choose if you want to be an effective DD or an effective Heal/support by choosing your path. Sure you can still equip and summon DD avatars, you'll just be less effective if you chose the heal/support path, same for the other way around.

I'd rather choose what I want to be effective in rather that being able to be sub-par in everything.

[AreeyaJaidee]

You're solutions are bad (false alternatives) and worse (allowing all the summons but giving them a crippling cool down).



Solution 3, only one summon can be equipped or used at a time. Like pokemon, you want to use a different summon, you have to put the first one away.

Could you just stick to suggesting alternatives instead of calling other people's ideas "bad". It's quite annoying as a corrective term.

SMN can have most these mechanics and decent damage, why must everyone auto assume it's going to be OP out the gate?

Every job/class goes through adjustment phases: in FFXI's case the devs hindered SMN not by nerfing their DMG but instead they weren't given enough options.

Looks like topic is going good just keep it mature and decent please.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

SMN can have most these mechanics and decent damage, why must everyone auto assume it's going to be OP out the gate?

Mostly because we base our experience on FFXI. They cannot make it so that SMN can do as good damage as full fledge DD and as good heals/support as full fledge healers/support classes. They just cannot because then it would not be fair that a single job can do everything jus as effectively as someone else that can only do 1 thing.

The result? They would unfortunately need to make it so that it's not as good a DD than a DD job and not as good a healer/support than a healer/support job because sadly people would complain if they could do everything just as good.

But you may be right, there might be a way to balance it all out, I just can't think of any.

[SilvertearRen]

You know, they had something called a Mystic in the files. Maybe that will be the Summoning Job's main class. Just be patient and don't overspeculate.

[Anima]

That looks Amazing, lots of great Ideas! I never played XI so I don't know how it worked for it :x but I would like If they add and separate Summoner and Primal Skills differently with each of their own Sets. Summoner Skills is just like other Class Abilities/Skills while Primal Skills will change depending which Primal is Summoned according to the Saved Set.

I.E
When you Summon Shiva, the Action Bar's will change to Shiva's Set which can be modified at will and will only affect when you use Shiva. When you summon Ramuh, the Set will change to Ramuh's Set, so there will be no need to re-set/change your Action Bar Skills or consuming much space for the Action Bar so you can focus.

Shiva Set
|Purge|Refresh|Blizzard III|Freeze III|Ice Spikes III|Diamond Dust|

When you change to Ramuh, the Action Bar will also change and adjust.

Ramuh Set
|Purge|Refresh|Thunder III|Shock III|Shock Spikes III|Judgement Bolt|

I reckon they should also add this since they're also doing it for Point Allocation/Attributes and I also hope they're doing it for Classes too.

[AreeyaJaidee]

...
Anyways, until SE can get conjs and thaus right, I don't want them to release summoners.

This goes without saying. SMN and Jobs in general are Future content.

Reason for talking about future content now: so we don't have a FFXI repeat of sucky SMN Job upon release of SMN

[Sephr]

I like this idea, although it would probably make sense to have something like (In my opinion):

Class = Caller

Jobs = Evoker = DD job, perhaps would gain access to spells akin to classical FF summoning, so they might cast Judgment Bolt, but not summon a pet for AoE lightning damage etc.
= Summoner = Support/Tank class, can call an avatar of a primal for permanent assistance, without perpetuation costs ideally.

Obviously haven't thought about it much, but jobs might be the way to go to please everyone.

[AreeyaJaidee]

You know, they had something called a Mystic in the files. Maybe that will be the Summoning Job's main class. Just be patient and don't overspeculate.

Thanks for the comment: No worries Silver; this isn't so much about "if" SMN releases but more so "when" it does we want it to be right and that's why the forum is here so we can suggest a better product for which we soon will be paying for

[AreeyaJaidee]

It's all going to rest on the time put into the SMN's summons.

If the summon each have to require about same exp as player to lvl up then it will be difficult to lvl them all.

This also combines with the fact that summons will specialize elementally: ifrit would be good tank against a fire based mob, but the damage wouldn't be great because they would be same element.

What it comes down to is: if you're an epic SMN then you earned it by putting massive hours into lvling yourself and summons plus understanding the complex gameplay mechanics of the class.

Still I refer to the scenario of DDs: NIN tanked in FFXI even though multiple jobs already existed for that role. NIN also was a heavy DD even though multiple jobs did that too. My point is that it was more accepted because NIN was a DD job and everyone generally liked it and it's looks. If you play NIN current day itS even more OP than it's ever been since it literally has so much haste that it crits every second. However, few ppl cry about that; why? Because they look forward to getting that status themselves. Which means that they will have to devote ALOT of time to getting perfect gear plus lvling to cap.

However when a mage gets a shot at the same status; ppl shoot it down hard.

Seems very one-sided.